Hare Krishna Society

SP re praise and insult

Books : Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 4: “The Creation of the Fourth Order” : SB 4.15: King Prthu’s Appearance and Coronation : SB 4.15.23 : PURPORT :

Gentle devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead know perfectly well who is God and who is not. Nondevotee impersonalists, however, who have no idea what God is and who never offer prayers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are always interested in accepting a human being as God and offering such prayers to him. This is the difference between a devotee and a demon. Demons manufacture their own gods, or a demon himself claims to be God, following in the footsteps of Rāvaṇa and Hiraṇyakaśipu. Although Pṛthu Mahārāja was factually an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he rejected those praises because the qualities of the Supreme Person were not yet manifest in him. He wanted to stress that one who does not actually possess these qualities should not try to engage his followers and devotees in offering him glory for them, even though these qualities might be manifest in the future. If a man who does not factually possess the attributes of a great personality engages his followers in praising him with the expectation that such attributes will develop in the future, that sort of praise is actually an insult.

Dear _______ Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

The following will establish the truth based on what Prabhupada said.

Letters : 1969 Correspondence : September : Letter to: Jayapataka — London 26 September, 1969 : 69-09-26 :

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated September 11th, and I have noted the contents. Enclosed please find one photograph of the Radha-Krishna throne, so you may begin constructing it as soon as possible. When the Radha-Krishna Deities are installed, you may turn your main attention to Them, rather than to the Lord Jagannatha Deities. You continue to keep Jagannatha nicely though, and sometimes change His dress. So far as your having already ordered instruments from India, that is all right. Regarding your question about the verse in the prayers to the Spiritual Master, the Spiritual Master is one of the associates of Krishna. The prayers offered by VisvanathaCakravarti to his Spiritual Master have a special significance. His Spiritual Master was one of the assistant gopis, so the prayer was offered like that. On the whole, the Spiritual Master is an agent of Krishna. But either He is assistant to the gopis or assistant to the cowherds boys, He is on the level of Krishna. That is the verdict of all scriptures. Krishna is worshipable God and the Spiritual Master is worshipper God. The exact words are sebya (worshipable) and sebak (worshipper)

And who is his spiritual master?

Bombay, April 17, 1976 : 760417SB.BOM :

Dakṣa śraddadhānaḥ: faithful. Faithful to whom? To the spiritual master. Whatever he says, the brahmacārī should take it: “Yes, it is my life and soul.” That is the explanation given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He is explaining with reference to the verse vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana [Bg. 2.41]. He very nicely explains. You have perhaps read it, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura’s… Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has taught very, very nicely about guru. Therefore he has written in Gurvaṣṭaka, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. He is example, practical example of guru-bhakti,Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. He accepted his guru, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. So he said that “I am not interested for my salvation or going back to Godhead. I am not interested.” Interested means it may come; it may not come. “That I don’t mind. But I am interested only with the words of my guru.” Viśvanātha Cakravartī said. “That is my life. Whether I will be successful or not successful, it doesn’t matter. I must take the words of my Guru Mahārāja as my life and soul.”

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Srila Prabhupada stotram recited by Yasoda nandana dasa

Vancouver, BC August 29, 2015 Krishna Balarama temple

krsnaika-ceta mada-moha-vinasa-karin
mad-drsti-gocara prabho prabhupada-svamin
dosabhivrtti-paridusita-manda-buddhe
sancintayami caranau tava bhakti-heto

“O Lord, O Prabhupada, may you always be the object of my vision. Only the name of Krsna can destroy my pride and illusion. Although my mind and intelligence are contaminated by wicked inclinations, I nevertheless take shelter of Your Divine Grace by constant meditation upon your lotus feet in causeless devotion.”

vrndavane ramana-reti-prasiddha-bhumau
tatrapi krsna-balarama-supada-mule
jnanam param parama-krsna-sudharmity uktam
dantas tu deva prabhupada namo namaste

“In the most holy land of Vrndavana, in Ramana Reti, at the lotus feet of Sri Krsna-Balarama, you are preaching the topmost knowledge of Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the fountainhead of religion. O master of the senses, O my Lord, Srila Prabhupada, let me offer my obeisances unto you.”

namaste namaste krpa-purna-drsti
namaste namaste mahananda-dhatri
namamo namama punar raksa raksa
prasiddha-prabho pahi mam daksa daksa

“I offer my obeisances unto the spiritual master of the entire world, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, whose glances are full of mercy and who is the bestower of transcendental bliss. O renowned lord, protect me and kindly shower your compassion on me again and again.”

bhaktisiddhanta-sisyaya
bhaktivedanta-swami-namine
prasannaya prasantaya
tasmai sri-gurave nama

“Let me offer my obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master, who is a disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, who is always calm and joyful, and who in known by the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami.”

sri-vanga-bhumi-jana-bhusana gaura-lila
gauranga-bhava parisarana-matra-sila
radha-madhava-pada-padma-mano-vilasin
ananda-rasi prabhupada namo namas te

“The land of Bengal is worshipable by the whole world because Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu performed His pastimes there. I offer my obeisances unto my divine master, who is full of bliss. He is always in the ecstasy of Lord Gauranga and is therefore immersed in the lotus feet of Sri Sri Radha-Madhava.”

Some questions for the New Dwarka assembly of devotees

by Vidura Mahatma dasa

What about the actual meaning of the song…does it only apply to a particular type of devotee or spiritual master?

A good question but not the kind of questions we are seeing from the New Dwarka community or any other ISKCON center for that matter.

Yes, the samsara-dava prayers definitely do apply to a very particular type of devotee or spiritual master:

“This song is offering obeisances particularly to the spiritual master, and the symptoms of the spiritual master are described in this prayer. The spiritual master has two kind of symptoms in his activities. One kind is called constant, and other kind is called temporary. So the first verse says that the constant symptom of the spiritual master is that he can deliver his disciples from the blazing fire of this material existence. That is the eternal qualification of spiritual master. Trāṇāya means for deliverance, andkāruṇya means compassionate, very merciful. The spiritual master comes to the deliverance of the fallen souls out of his causeless mercy. Nobody has any business for the sufferings of others. The best example is Lord Jesus Christ, that he suffered for others. And it is the principle in the Bible that he accepted all the sins of others. This is the sign of spiritual master, that he voluntarily accepts the sinful activities of others and delivers them. That is the qualification of spiritual master. How it is? Just like ghanāghanatvam. Ghanāghanatvam means dense cloud in the sky. The first example has been said, that this material existence is just like forest blazing fire. Now, to extinguish the forest blazing fire, there is no use of sending fire brigade. The firebrigade cannot approach the forest fire; neither any man can go there to extinguish the fire. One has to depend completely on the mercy of nature. That means one has to completely depend on the cloud in the sky. Otherwise, there is no question of pouring water on that blazing fire. So the example is very appropriate. As man-made engine or fire brigade is unable to extinguish the forest blazing fire, similarly, the material existentional blazing fire cannot be extinguished by any man-made method.”

Song Purports : Purport to Sri-Sri-Gurv-astakam — Los Angeles, January 2, 1969

“So guru means spiritual master means who can deliver one from this forest fire. Just like when there is forest fire, the animals are very much disturbed, and they die mostly. The snakes, they die immediately. So this forest fire, saṁsāra-dāvānala,is going on perpetually, and the person or the authorized person who can deliver you from this forest fire of material existence, he’s called guru, or the spiritual master. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam. […] Just like cloud takes the water from the sea-cloud hasn’t got its own water; cloud takes water from the sea—similarly, a spiritual master brings mercy from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Just see the comparison. He has no own mercy, but he carries the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the qualification of spiritual master.”

Lecture on Gurvastakam at Upsala University — Stockholm, September 9, 1973

The Gurvastakam is meant for:

Spiritual master who can actually deliver his disciples
Spiritual master who is directly receiving the mercy of Lord Krishna
Spiritual master who is authorized
Spiritual master in the same category of Lord Jesus Christ (a śaktyāveśa avatāra)

If there should be no change from the standard that Srila Prabhupada set, why are there even other initiating gurus to begin with?

This is the real question which nobody wants to ask. It had always only been Srila Prabhupada as the initiating guru in ISKCON. Upon his disappearance this changed and many gurus sprouted and began initiating their own disciples, splitting the world into zones and having their disciples in those zones chant their own names in the temple instead of Srila Prabhupada’s name. New Dwarka leaders acknowledge this history and assure us that the GBC, however, “outlawed” this practice. So the GBC has a record of changing the standard that Srila Prabhupada set but for some reason all of them still rely on the conclusions of the same GBC instead of what Srila Prabhupada actually says.

Now for some reason the devotees in New Dwarka insist that Srila Prabhupada is only the siksa guru of new devotees in ISKCON today. This is a huge change in the standard Srila Prabhupada set. Srila Prabhupada established himself as the spiritual master and initiating guru for all members of the institution:

“I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually” (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)
Srila Prabhupada never said that his status as spiritual master of the institution depended on his physical presence, just as he never said that the morning prayers being dedicated to him depended on his physical presence. Srila Prabhupada simply set a certain standard and practice for the society to follow and that’s that. There should have never been any change to that standard. But while the devotees of New Dwarka take shelter of the principle of no change to support one aspect of the established standard in ISKCON (mangala-aratik), they reject the very same principle when applied to an even bigger established standard – initiations!

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Saṁsāra-dāvānala PRABHUPADA´S SONG.

Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka,THIS IS THE EXCLUSIVE SONG OF SRILA PRABHUPADA,IN HIS HONOR AND WITH ALL THE GRATITUDE OF ALL THE CONDITIONED SOULS IN THIS KALI-YUGA,NOW AND FOREVER.

PRAYERS TO THE REAL GURU by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, Guruv-aṣṭaka prayers.

When we hear this song, wherever we are and we hear this melody, we automatically associate it with Srila Prabhupada and we meditate on it.

And that should be like that for ISKCON as long as ISKCON EXISTS.

This is the true glorification ceremony for Srila Prabhupada, Jaladuta ceremony, … etc.

Great sports stars when they retire, their shirts, their numbers are removed from the team in his honor.

As each nation has its national song and when this sound all are filled with respect and pride,in the same way this song Saṁsāra-dāvānala should be the hymn of ISKCON dedicated exclusively in honor to Srila Prabhupada.

The GBC should show their love and gratitude to Srila Prabhupada legislating unequivocally that in ISKCON the gurv-aṣṭaka song, the Saṁsāra song is sung and it will be sung forever,only and exclusively in honor of Srila Prabhupada, the savior of all the suffering souls of this Kali-yuga.

This should be a clear RECLAIM of any devotee in gratitude to whom all of us we owe our lives.

Therefore this Gurvaṣṭaka, saṁsāra-dāvānala, we have to sing. (SB 1.3.26 — Los Angeles, October 1, 1972)

If any authority doubt about this then he is not an authority.

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“ONE WHO DOES NOT ACTUALLY POSSESS THESE QUALITIES SHOULD NOT TRY TO ENGAGE HIS FOLLOWERS AND DEVOTEES IN OFFERING HIM GLORY FOR THEM,” (SB 4.15.23)

“TO BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN…”(Upadesamrta five)

——————————————————————————-

1.“SO, IT´S NOT A PRABHUPADA´S SONG.”,
“it´s NOT ONLY a Prabhupada´s song”
————–
2.BUT,FOR US IT´S A PRABHUPADA´S SONG.
————–
3.BUT IT´S NOT ISKCON SO-CALLED “GURUS” SONG .
————–

Upadesamrta five:

-“INTELLIGENTLY, ONE MUST SELECT PROPER PERSONS WITH CAREFUL DISCRIMINATION.”

-“TO BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN…”

-In order to INTELLIGENTLY apply the sixfold loving reciprocations mentioned in the previous verse,
ONE MUST SELECT PROPER PERSONS WITH CAREFUL DISCRIMINATION.

-In this verse Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī advises the devotee
TO BE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN
the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī and uttama-adhikārī.(Upadesamrta five)
——————————
SB 4.15.23 :Srila Prabhupada’s PURPORT

ONE WHO DOES NOT ACTUALLY POSSESS THESE QUALITIES
SHOULD NOT TRY TO ENGAGE HIS FOLLOWERS AND DEVOTEES IN OFFERING HIM GLORY FOR THEM,

EVEN THOUGH THESE QUALITIES MIGHT BE MANIFEST IN THE FUTURE.

IF A MAN WHO DOES NOT FACTUALLY POSSESS THE ATTRIBUTES OF A GREAT PERSONALITY
ENGAGES HIS FOLLOWERS IN PRAISING HIM
with the expectation that
SUCH ATTRIBUTES WILL DEVELOP IN THE FUTURE,

THAT SORT OF PRAISE IS ACTUALLY AN INSULT.”

——————————————————————————

1.FIRST:

.Someone as Jayadvaita Swami, and anyone closely related to him,says about the gurv-aṣṭaka song:

“SO, IT´S NOT A PRABHUPADA´S SONG.”

.An immediate answer of any devotee:

“Of course,Prabhú, I know that this song was not specifically written TO Srila Prabhupada FOUR HUNDRED YEARS AGO.

Prabhu I understand so far,but thanks for the help.”

————————————————————————
Also they say THIS SONG IS FOR ALL THE PARAMPARA NOT ONLY FOR SRILA PRABHUPADA.

Answer:

Of course for all the great acharyas, liberated souls, “the parampara system of pure devotees”, “a devotee on the topmost platform, the mahā-bhāgavata stage, and a paramahaṁsa-ṭhākura, a spiritual form only fit to be addressed as paramahaṁsa or ṭhākura.”.(CC Madhya 25.9)

————————————————————————
This song gurv-aṣṭaka prayers ,according to Srila Prabhupada,was written, was composed and dedicated by Srila Viśvanātha Cakravartī THAKURA, a great liberated devotee, to his guru Srila Narottama dasa THAKURA,and describes the qualities of a devotee of the highest degree, paramahamsa-thakura, as Srila Narottama dasa Thakura.
————–
“Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has taught very, very nicely about guru.

He is example, practical example of guru-bhakti, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura.

Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura accepted his guru, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.”

Arrival Address — Los Angeles, June 20, 1975:.
————–
Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura describes THE REAL GURU in this way. SB 5.14.13, Purport
————–
Prabhupāda:
“This song is offering obeisances PARTICULARLY to the spiritual master, and
THE SYMPTOMS of the spiritual master are described in this prayer.”
————–
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Hare Krsna to all
Pranams
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Yesterday on Lord Balaram’s Appearance day at the Sri Sri Krsna Balarama Temple in New Westminster BC Canada, three new bhaktas took first initiation from Srila Prabhupada via his officiating acarya system of ritvik priests.Not less than 30 devotees were present, and everyone had a great time-even thru the smoke filled
temple room. His Grace Yasoda Nandan Prabhu presided over the fire sacrifice.The new devotees names are Vidura Mahatma dasa, Ananta Vijaya dasa, and Ananda devi dasi. It is said that after this ceremony all ones past sins are lifted, and anyone could see how happy each of the new bhaktas looked.

We put these announcements out to the devotee world at large so that they can see– that Srila Prabhupada’s original Hare Krsna movement is STILL going on and– increasing daily.

Param Vijayte Sri Krsna Sankirtan
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

damaghosa das
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#3) https://youtu.be/71z-dHv3Izg

#4) https://youtu.be/UkkvLqBenTM

#5) https://youtu.be/b806ZwKDu-I

#8) https://youtu.be/um5jYPq30C0

#9) https://youtu.be/UOJDfA7Q9Io

#11) https://youtu.be/sUDyfowl3F8

#12) https://youtu.be/zOyI800OMRQ

Hare Krsna

Below we have some nice instructions by Srila Prabhupada regarding doing kirtan 4 hours in the public as opposed to just trying to give them basic Vedic instructions from BG or SB.
Kalau sudra sambhava-everyone is born a sudra in kali yuga but by following the sadhana bhakti process of purification, eventually we all become eligible to hear the words of instructions of the Mahatmas, such as Srila Prabhupada. But,before that-just do kirtan, because they wont understand a word you say. And will waste your time by arguing.

At the end of this lecture Srila Prabhupada explains how the param para is lost by people making their own interpretations. This is what we had before Srila Prabhupada preached all over the world, and now that he has physically left, so many concoctions and mis-interpretations are once again going on. And done in his name !!

Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
———————–

Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2 — Vrndavana, October 24, 1976 : 761024SB.VRN :

This is mahātmā. So you have to approach such mahātmā. That is recommendation in the Bhakti–rāsamṛta–sindhu: ādau gurvāśrayam sadhu mārgānugamanam sad–dharma pṛcchāt. These are things wanted. So if you actually want to execute tapasya, then you must approach a person who has already executed tapasya, tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. Then you’ll get the things. Mahat–sevām. And there you have to render your service. In humbleness, service, sevayā. You can question mahātmā not by challenging but surrounded by praṇipāt and sevā. Otherwise, you have no right to question. Just like this man went to Rūpa Gosvāmī. He has no right to waste time. So actually this discussion, instructions, are to be executed amongst the guru and the disciples, where there is submission. Otherwise there is no need of. Nowadays we hold some meeting. Some ordinary people they come to hear. But that kind of discussion Caitanya Mahāprabhu never did. Never did. Because these outsiders, they are not submissive. They come to see the fun. They do not come to learn something. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu never made any big meeting. In big meeting He was present, but kīrtana, saṅkīrtana. He was meeting in big meeting daily in the evening for four hours in Jagannātha temple, but the whole period of time was engaged in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But when there was a person like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya or Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī or Rāmānanda Rāya, like such exalted person, He used to discuss. Otherwise, He was not discussing. There was no need of discussing, because they do not approach with that humbleness. They think… Just like Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. So long Arjuna was thinking that “Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I shall reply Him equally,” then Kṛṣṇa was very gravely speaking. But when Arjuna understood that “This kind of talking there will be no benefit,” then he became His disciple: śiṣyas te ‘ham śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. “There is no more discussion. Now I accept You as my guru.”

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Article by: Damagosha dasa

Letter to: Upendra
—
Los Angeles
6 August, 1970

70-08-06

My Dear Upendra,

Please accept my blessings. I am in receipt of your letter dated August 4, 1970 and have examined the contents. A reply to your last letter was previously sent.

Now all my disciples must work combinedly and with cooperation to spread this Sankirtana Movement. If you cannot work together then my work is stopped up. Our Society is like one big family and our relationships should be based on love and trust. We must give up the fighting spirit and use our intelligence to push ahead. You should accept help from your Godbrothers.

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Article by: Damagosha dasa

If we think that “Here is a stone statue,” then it will not prolong many days. It will not… Galagraha. No more vigraha, but galagraha. Suppose I have established this temple. Now under my direction, my disciples are worshiping vigraha. Vigraha means the form of the Lord, rūpa. But if there is no following of the regulative principles, then after my death it will be galagraha, a burden, that “Our rascal Guru Mahārāja established this temple, and we have to worship, early rise in the morning, all botheration.” This will be… That is called galagraha, a burden, “He has left with us a burden.” This is the risk. Then this, such a big temple will be mismanaged, and you’ll find that “This is breaking” and “This is unclean,” and there is no attention. This will be our… That is called galagraha. “The rascal has given us a burden.”

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Article by: Damagosha dasa

Hare Krsna–

This is a very nice presentation by some of the devotee scientists (all Phd’s in chemistry, math, and physics) to Srila Prabhupada regarding laws of nature and the origins of life. They show that the “laws” the material scientists know of are too limited to produce complex development in living things. Simply put, no matter how many times you drive a volkswagen beetle around the block, it will never become a Cadillac Escalade . They showed to Srila Prabhupada by mathematical theorems that cellular evolutionary theory is simply, statistically, impossible-and even a small celled organism would take more years to evolve (if it could) than the lifetime of Lord Brahma ! Which from our standpoint, in years of time, is beyond our imagination, and according to them (the scientists) longer or older than the age of this universe! So who is going to wait around for that to- supposedly happen?

They also showed by quantum mechanics that to observe something, when you take the observer and the observed back further from the microscope, back to eyeball, and further back, that still to explain something, you still needed the “observer”.,or something non physical- the consciousness or the soul . It is a very good presentation on the “science” of God Consciousness as opposed to atheistic theory.

Hare Krsna

damaghosa das
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July 3 1976 Wash DC-Life comes from Life

Prabhupāda: So you are searching, you are surprised how this direction is coming. Here is the answer, mattaḥ, “from Me.” The answer is there.

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Submitted by: Navadvipa dasa

VEDIC VILLAGE REVIEW #45

August 16, 2015. Adventures in New Jaipur, Prabhupadanuga Farm in Fiji

On the way to the New Jaipur farm in Fiji, Govindapriya, SriGovinda, Radharani stop to pet a horse…

NEW ARRIVALS

After ten months of preparation, and a long time waiting on the not-so-fast wheels of the Fiji

bureaucracy, Braja Prabhu, with wife Govindapriya and daughter Radharani, finally landed in Fiji. They

had flown out of Budapest, Hungary, transiting Europe and Asia, coming non-stop from Hong Kong on

their last leg of the trip. Catching a domestic flight in Nadi on the main island of Viti Levu, they flew 45

minutes to Labasa on our island of Vanua Levu. Sridevi and I greeted them at the airport and

immediately we went… shopping! Of course, only for basic necessities suitable for simple country living.

We showed them a bit of the dusty main street of Labasa, a sugar town of Indians and local

natives which reminds one of a small Indian city. Then we drove two hours across the mountains and

backbone of the island to the wet, green side which receives the prevailing southeast tradewinds.

Stopping twice for stretching our legs, at the spring on the mountain top and at a waterfall called

Nasavu, we drove into the New Jaipur entrance. Passing the water cress, the dalo and kava fields,

crossing the river, through the orchards, along the cliffs and up to the cottages. The bright Jaipur

saffron-orange cottage was for Braja and family- an emotional entrance to their new residence, and

soon the ideas for decorations, modifications, and enhancements began to appear. The views over the

pastures and ocean were partly dimmed by a cloudy, dull first dayin Fiji. After all, it is not always

beautifully sunny here…

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Hare Krishna Society

Evidence on Gurvastaka and who it is for

Srila Prabhupada stotram recitation Vancouver, BC August 29, 2015 Krishna Balarama temple

Some questions for the New Dwarka assembly of devotees

Some questions for the New Dwarka assembly of devotees

Saṁsāra-dāvānala PRABHUPADA´S SONG

Three new initiations on Lord Balaram’s App Day

Caitanya did kirtan for hours but never discussions-that only for submissive, scholarly devotees

Srila Prabhupada’s early advice to his blooming disicples

When we have lost that loving feeling–SP

Srila Prabhupada discussed KC with scientist devotees over origins of life

VEDIC VILLAGE REVIEW # 45