THE TRADITION
OF DEBATE

  by the Prabhupada Anugas
An offering at the lotus feet of
His Divine Grace A.c. Bbaktivedanta Swami Prabbupada.

Founder-Acarya of tbe International Society for Knna Consciousness
on the occasion of His Centennial celebration 1896-1996.
Part One.

nama om visnu padaya krsna presthaya bhutaJe
srimate bhalctivedanta swamin in namine
namaste sarasvate deve gauravani pracarine
nirvisesa sunyavadi pascatya desa tarine

" I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A.C.. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet."

 "Our respectful obeisances are unto you, 0 spiritual master, servant of Sarasvati Goswami. You are kindly
preaching the message of Lord Caitanya-deva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism."

The unbreakable disciplic succession


The Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Sampradaya has a rich tradition of authoritative transcendental knowledge describing the position of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the living entities and the divine process of Bhakti or devotional service. This has been elaborately described by the great acaryas or transcendental authorized preceptors in the unbreakable line of disciplic succession.

"Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructed His disciples to write books on the science of Krishna. a task which those who follow Him have continued to carry out down to the present day. The elaborations and expositions on the philosophy taught by Lord Caitanya are in fact the most voluminous, exacting and consistent, due to the unbreakable system of disciplic succession, of any religious culture in the world." (I)

The authorized Vedic system recommends that every human being should practice the process of devotional service. The practice of devotional service necessitates taking shelter of a bona fide fully realized Acarya. Such powerful acaryas or pure devotees can fully dissipate any misconceptions and material illusions of the conditioned souls. The association of such powerful perfected souls is so potent that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended that the highest perfection of spiritual process is to remain in whatever position one may be and to hear about Lord Krishna from a fully self-realized soul.
So namanta eva san mukharitam-bhavadiya-vartam. Just try to hear the message of God from realized soul." (2)
sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhir ye prayaso 'jitajito 'py asi tais tri-/okyam

" My dear Lord one should give up monistic speculation and the cultivation of knowledge altogether. He should begin his spiritual life in devotional service by receiving information of the Lord's activities from a realized devotee of the Lord. If one prosecutes his spiritual cultivation by following these two principles, and keeping himself rightly in the honest path of living, then although Your Lordship is never conquerable, You become conquered by such a process...the best course according to Lord Caitanya is to let them remain in whatever condition they are in but to engage them in hearing of the activities of the Supreme Lord as those activities are explained in Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. The transcendental messages of the scriptures should be received from the lips of realized souls."(3)

"The purport is. don't become overintelligent. Just hear from the self-realized soul. If you sincerely hear from the realized soul. then one day although nobody can conquer Him, you will be able to conquer Krsna."(4)


"We should hear from the person who is not defective, perfect. Therefore, our process of hearing or getting knowledge is from the perfect person."(5)
Some famous debates

In the history of Vaisnavism, particularly in the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-tradition there are standard methods of establishing the bona fide conclusions of the disciplic succession. The tradition of disputation or debate is a well established practice to firmly ascertain the veracity of one's contentions and points. Such debates were very common in the past to settle controversial and philosophical issues. The great acarya, Yamunacarya at the early age of twelve, attained everlasting fame when he went and debated Vidvajajana Kolahala, the court pandita of the South Indian King of the Pandya kingdom.

The great Acarya Ramanujacarya established the Visista-Advaita philosophy by strong preaching and vigorous debates with the Mayavadis. He even debated with his own teacher, Yadava Prakasa to establish the position of the Lord Vishnu and the Vaishnava practices. It is important to remember that after the departure of Sripada Sankaracarya, the mayavadis were still the prevailing philosophical party until sripada Yamunacarya came and refuted many of their fundamental contentions with His Agamya-Pramanya, where He systematically defeated the prevailing srnarta Brahmanas ideas and Mayavada philosophies.

Sripada Ramanuja Acarya [1017-1137] wrote His Sri Bhasya to combat the influence of the Mayavadi philosophy which was widespread thoughout South India. Srila Jiva Goswami Prabhupada, the foremost theologian of the Gaudiya-Sampradaya, has described the unique contribution of Sripada Ramanuja in His Tattva-Sandarbha.

ity anena prathita-mahiman saksat sri prabhrtitah pravrtta-sampradayanam sri vaisnavabhidhanam Sriramanuja-bhagavat-pada-viracita-sri bhasyadi-drsta-mata-pramanyena mu/a-grantha-svarasyena ca anyatha ca. advaita-vyakhyanam tu prasiddhatvan nati-vitayate.
"These South Indian Vaishnavas vigorously preach the Lord's glories, and because their disciplic succession begins with Sri Lakshmi, they are known as the Sri Sampradaya. Among them the great Acarya Sri Ramanuja, who was intently devoted to the service of the Lord's lotus feet, wrote the Sri-Bhasya and many other books establishing the Vaishnava philosophy... Because of His powerful preaching the commentaries of the advaitins impersonalists were not able to prevail in the South," (6)
The Sri-Madhva-Vijaya, the biography of Sripada Madhvacarya [1239-1319], relates how Sripada Madhvacarya debated some prominent mayavadis during his preaching tours. He disputed with any and all panditas and scholars who came to challenge him.
 
"As a youth he disputed with his own teacher Achyuta Preksha and established the supremacy of Vaishnavism, while debating the Advaita literature known as asta-siddhi, where he pointed out thirty two defects in the text. Soon after his sannyasa, he took on the Buddhist panditas Buddhisagara and Vadi-Simha and solidly defeated them in eighteen ways."(7)
 
During one of his preaching tours of South India, he met the head of the Srngeri Matha. Srila Prabhupada describes the incident as follows. "He finally discussed scriptures with Vidyasankara, the exalted leader of the Srngeri Matha. Vidyasankara was actually diminished in the presence of Madhvacarya...When Madhvacarya returned from Badarikasrama, he went to Ganjama, which is on the bank of the Godavari. He met there with two learned scholars named Sobhana Bhatta and Swami Sastri. Later these scholars became known in the disciplic succession of Madhvacarya as Padmanabha Tirtha and Narahari Tirtha."(8)
 
On one of his preaching tours in Visnu-mangala, he was challenged by Trivikrama Pandita, a famous advaitin who was said to have mastered all the Advaita literatures and commentaries from the time of Sankara up to that time. He was known to have memorized more than 125,000 verses of advaita literature by heart. Sripada Madhvacarya engaged him in a furious debate for more than 15 days and he systematically defeated and refuted all of the erroneous contentions and jugglery of words that Trivikrama Pandita could muster. The defeated Pandita finally accepted the superiority of Sripada Madhvacarya's arguments and surrendered to the celebrated Acarya and became one of his foremost disciples. Trivikrama Pandita then requested Sri Madhva to write an additional commentary on the Vedanta-Sutra. Sri Madhva then wrote the Anu-Vyakhyana, a master piece commentary on the Vedanta- Sutra.
 
Another famous Vaisnava Acarya, Sri Aksobhya Muni a direct pontifical descendent of Madhvacarya engaged in one of the most famous debates in Vaisnava history with the then presiding Acarya of the Srngeri Matha, Vidyaranya Swami. This famous debate centered around the famous text of the Chandogya-Upanisad "Tat Tvam asi" The famous Visista-advaitin Acarya Sri Vedanta Desika was said to have arbitrated the debate and rendered his verdict in favor of Sri Aksobhya Muni and composed the famous verse 'asina tattvam asina' confirming the victory of Aksobhya Muni. This debate firmly established the philosophical position of the Madhva-Vaishnava doctrine against the impersonalists followers of Sankara.
 
In our Gaudiya-Sampradaya, Sri Krsna Caitanya Himself debated with the famous logician and impersonalist scholar Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. On the authority of the Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, we learn that the debate lasted for at least 7 days and more. Sriman Mahaprabhu clearly defeated the Bhattacarya and established the Supremacy of the Vaishnava siddhanta or conclusion. The celebrated Advaitin then surrendered to Mahaprabhu and became his disciple.
 
Sriman Mahaprabhu disputed with some Buddhist scholar during one his tours in South India and He converted the Buddhist teacher and his disciples. During His visit to Varanasi, Sri Caitanya encountered Prakasananda Sarasvati and His 60,000 disciples. He engaged in Sastric disputation with Him. There were various arguments and Mahaprabhu defeated the impersonalist scholar.
 
Following the departure of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, [1486-1534 a.c] the two foremost disciples of Sriman Mahaprabhu, Srila Rupa Goswami and Srila Sanatana Goswami, became the foremost authorities of the Gaudiya Sampradaya. The two celebrated brothers had once been challenged by a proud scholar to debate. Srila Prabhupada relates the incident as follows:
 
"A materialist, who was very proud of his reputation as a Sanskrit scholar approached Sri Rupa Goswami and Sanatana, not wanting to waste their time, gave him a written statement, that he had defeated them in a debate on the revealed scriptures. Taking this paper, the scholar approached Jiva Goswami for a similar certificate of defeat, but Jiva Goswami did not agree to give him one. On the contrary, he argued with him regarding the revealed scriptures and defeated him. Certainly it was right for Jiva Goswami to stop such a dishonest scholar from advertising that he had defeated Srila Rupa Goswami and Srila Sanatana Goswami, but due to their illiteracy the sahajiya class refer to this incident to accuse Jiva Goswami of deviating from the principle of humility. They do not know, however, that humility and meekness are appropriate when one's own honor is insulted. But when Lord Vishnu or the acaryas are blasphemed, one should not be humble and meek but must act. One should follow the example given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu... trnad api sunicena. One should tolerate insults against oneself, but when there is blasphemy committed against superiors such as other Vaishnavas, one should neither be humble nor meek; one must take proper steps to counteract such blasphemy. This is the duty of servant of guru and Vaishnavas. Anyone who understands the principle of eternal servitude to the guru and Vaishnavas will appreciate the action of Jiva Gosvami in connection with the so-called scholar's victory over his gurus, Srila Rupa and Srila Sanatana Goswamis."(9)
 
As will be seen later in this presentation, there is a very important point here regarding the sentimental notion that we should not argue and that argumentation is against the principle of Vaishnavism.
 
Sripada Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura also defeated the Svakiya-Vadis during his stay in Radha-Kunda. He re-established the original teachings of Sri Rupa Goswami. In the middle 1700's, Sripada Baladeva Vidyabhusana was challenged by the Ramanandi scholars over the bona fide origin of the Gaudiya-Sampradaya and the position of Lord Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the position of Lord Narayana He was also challenged regarding the fact that the Gaudiya-Sampradaya did not have a Vedanta-sutra commentary. Sripada Baladeva Vidyabhusana debated the Ramanandis. He triumphed and defeated the challengers. Regarding this incident and in Jayapura, Srila Prabhupada describes the unique contribution of Sripada Baladeva Vidyabhusana as follows:
 
"So the Gaudiya-Sampradaya did not make any commentary on the Brahma-Sutra because they took it, Caitanya Mahaprabhu took it, as a natural commentary... This is the Gaudiya Vaishnava-siddhanta. But sometimes back, in Jaipur, there was a challenge that the Gaudiya-Sampradaya has no commentary on the Vedanta-sutra. Because he [Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura] was a grand scholar, grand old man scholar, at that time living in Vrindavana....So he was very old at that time living in Vrindavana; so he authorized Baladeva Vidyabhusana, that 'You do it.' There was no need, but people are demanding, 'Where is your commentary on the Vedanta-sutra?' So Baladeva Vidyabhusana with the order of Govindaji at Jaipura, he wrote the commentary on Brahma-Sutra. That name is Govinda Bhasya."(10)
 
During the last two centuries Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura both advanced the cause of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and reestablished the pure and original teachings of Sriman Mahaprabhu. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura was the first Acarya in our Sampradaya to preach through the medium of the English language. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura had to dispute and fight with many caste Brahmanas, Jati Gosais and Sahajiyas in order to establish the pure and original teachings of Sriman Mahapabhu. Srila Prabhupada has described and summarized the tremendous contribution of His Guru Maharaja in this connection:
 
"In the middle ages, after the disappearance of Lord Caitanya's great associate Lord Nityananda, a class of priestly persons claimed to be the descendents of Nityananda, calling themselves the Goswami caste. They further claimed that the practice and spreading of devotional service belonged only to their particular class, which was known as Nityananda-Vamsa. In this way they exercised their artificial power for some time, until Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, the powerful acarya of the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya completely smashed their idea. There was a great hard struggle for some time, but it has turned out successfully, and it is now correctly and practically established that devotional service is not restricted to a particular class of men. Besides that, anyone who is engaged in devotional service is already at the status of being a high-class Brahmana. So Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura's struggle for this movement has come out successful."(11)
 
"So My Guru Maharaja's contribution is that He defeated these caste Goswamis. He defeated this Brahmanism. He created that the same way as Caitanya Mahaprabhu did, ...That is the contribution say, within one hundred years. For this reason He had to face so many vehement protests from this Brahmana class, Goswamins."(12)
 
Srila Prabhupada Himself disputed and argued on so many issues. He never shied away from controversy. Even a cursory look at the numerous volumes of conversations which contain Srila Prabhupada's numerous statements on so many issues, clearly indicate that Srila Prabhupada vigorously debated on every contentious issue brought before him. His original books clearly bear this. Every Acarya establishes the principle of dharma and uses the sacred sastras and the age old method of debate and disputation to establish the bona fide authorized principles of the revealed scriptures and how it is meant to apply and put into practice according to time, place and circumstance...
FITNESS FOR DEBATE
The technical term in Sanskrit for the word debate is vada. This has been established by Sripada Madhva Acarya in His book Katha-Laksana, where the different kinds of debates and the rules and authorized methods are described. There are certain necessary qualifications that must be present before any individuals or group of individuals can actually participate in a debate. The necessary rules for a referee or arbitrator are also given and the necessary steps to be taken after the conclusion of a debate are also analyzed. It is important to note in this connection that Srila Prabhupada indicates in His teachings that Vedic debate has consequences. As earlier noted, the defeated party must surrender and give up everything. The prime example of this was the surrender of the famous scholar Sri Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya.

SARVABHAUMA BHATTACARYA SURRENDERS
 
"Similarly, Caitanya Mahaprabhu had a great discussion with Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, the greatest logician at that time, who was also a mayavadi impersonalist, and he was also converted. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is not mere sentimentalism."(13)

DEFEATED PARTY MUST SURRRENDER
 
"And if there is talk between one philosopher and another philosopher...just like Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sarvabhauma was a great scholar, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Who can speak about scholarship. So Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya was defeated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He was elderly person. There may be talks of philosophy, but if one party is defeated, the defeated person, he must be disciple of the winning victorious party. But at the present moment we'll go on talking for years together, and nobody is defeated; nobody is going to be disciple. Then what is the use of talking like that. So this kind of things will not do. We have to follow the Vedic principle."(14)
PRAKASANANDA SARASVATI 
BECOMES A VAISNAVA
 
"As an illustration, let us consider Caitanya Mahaprabhu. While He was preaching, He went to Benares, the seat of mayavadi sannyasis. The follower of Sankaracarya are mostly seen in Benares. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu was there, he was chanting and dancing. Some of the people very much appreciated this, and so he quickly became famous. One prominent sannyasi, Prakasananda Sarasvati, leader of many thousands of Mayavadi sannyasis, was informed: 'Oh, from Bengal one young sannyasi has come. He is so nicely chanting and dancing.' Prakasananda Sarasvati was a great Vedantist, and he did not like the idea. He said, 'Oh, he is a pseudo sannyasi. He is chanting and dancing and this is not the business of a sannyasi. A sannyasi should always engage himself in the study of philosophy and the Vedanta.' Then one of the devotees who did not like the remarks of Prakasananda Sarasvati came back and informed Lord Caitanya that He was being criticized. So the devotees arranged a meeting of all the sannyasis, and there was a philosophical discussion on the Vedanta between Prakasananda Sarasvati and Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. These accounts and philosophical discussions are given in our teachings of Lord Caitanya. It is remarkable that Prakasananda himself with all His disciples became Vaishnavas."(15)
 
It is important to note in this connection that there is a class of sentimental Vaishnavas who advocate that no one should argue or dispute contentious issues. They say ' just leave everything to Krsna'. While there is a degree of truth to the above statement, it is often used to avoid dealing with pertinent issues. They sometimes say that everything has already been discussed before, or that these kind of contentious discussions should be handled only by an elitist few. Or that such matters better be left to some research committee. Some other sentimentalists prefer to argue that because the very nature of arguments and disputation may entail some criticism, then that should be avoided altogether. They contend that we should not argue and dispute. Such argumentation is not good. However, Krsna Dasa Kaviraja presents a different version.
 
"siddhanta baliya citte na kara alasa iha haite krsna lage sudrdha manasa. Siddhanta, what is Krsna, if you study from the sastras, then siddhanta krsna baliya citte, don't be lazy in understanding Krsna because if you try to understand Krsna, sadhu sastra guru vakya cittete kariya aikya, through the Sadhu, Sastra and Guru, then you understand Krsna, what he is."(16)
 
"Your siddhanta is correct to the sastra and in this way go on reading books and have the correct perception and Krsna will help you. siddhanta baliya citte na kara alasa iha haite krsna lage sudrdha manasa. A sincere student should not neglect the discussions of such conclusions, considering them controversial, for such conclusions strenghten the mind. Thus one's mind becomes attached to Sri Krsna. You should always be alert in undestanding the sastric conclusions that will help you, otherwise we can be misled by bogus philosophies. I am very pleased that you are studying the books. That will make you happy and successful."(17)
DANGER OF SAHAJIYA IMITATION
 
Misconceptions such as, 'we should not discuss something if it is controversial,' or that it is inappropriate to discuss or read the books of the previous acaryas are symptoms of sahajiya and mayavadi philosophy.

"One should be particularly careful to understand the truth about Krsna. If because of laziness one does not come to know Krsna conclusively, one will be misguided about the cult of devotion, like those who declare themselves advanced devotees and imitate the transcendental symptoms sometimes observed in liberated souls... One should submissively receive the transcendental messages from spiritually advanced sources and chant the very messages for one's own benefit as well as the benefit of one' audience...imitation devotees, who wish to advertise themselves as elevated Vaisnavas and who therefore imitate the previous acaryas but do not follow them in principle are condemned in the words of Srimad-Bhagavatam as stone hearted."(18)

A FEW WORDS OF CAUTION
ABOUT FALSE DEVOTEES

 
Similarly, other false devotees think that studying books of the previous acaryas is unadvisable, like studying dry empiric philosophies. But Srila Jiva Goswami, following the previous acaryas has inculcated the conclusions of the scriptures in the six theses called Sat-sandarbhas. False devotees who have very little knowldege of such conclusions fail to achieve pure devotion for want of zeal in accepting the favorable directions for devotional service given by self realized devotees. Such false devotees are like impersonalists, who also consider devotional service no better than ordinary fruitive actions."(19)...
RASCAL PHILOSOPHY!
Srila Prabhupada also warns about the idea that Gaudiya-Vaishnavas do not engage in arguments. Such misguided sentiments are not approved by Srila Prabhupada.
 
Devotee: "And then he said, 'Gaudiya Vaishnavas, they do not engage in argumentation and debate.' "
Uttamasloka said, "Yes, Lord Caitanya argued with Prakasananda."
Srila Prabhupada: "O, Yes very good."
Satsvarupa: "But Swami B... said. No He did not convert him by argument, He converted him by the effulgence."
Srila Prabhupada: (to B...) "But there was argument, rascal."(20)
DEBATE LIKE RASCAL!
Srila Prabhupada has also warned about using dubious and rascal like techniques while debating. Frequent interruptions, restrictions on who can and who cannot speak, shifting subjects, filibusters, kangoroo court like proceedings are not part of the Vedic system of disputations.
Srila Prabhupada: "What will they debate? If they debate like rascal, that is another thing. If they debate like sane man, then there is..."(21)
BUY WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUDGE ANYONE ELSE?
Another sentimental notion is sometimes proposed by individuals who either cannot deal with the controversies and who are swept by emotional upsurges. But why should one devotee try to judge another devotee? What will be the benefit of this activity? Let us see what Srila Prabhupada says in this connection:
 
Srila Prabhupada: "No, first principle is that you have to follow the rules."
Young man: "What rules?"
Srila Prabhupada: "That is everywhere."
Young man: "Which rules are for me?"
Srila Prabhupada: "That is..."
Young man: "That is the point."
Srila Prabhupada: "That is next. First of all, as you say, in Christian, there is rules, there are Muhammedan's rules, there are Hindu rules. Rules are there. Now you have to select which rules you shall follow. That will depend on your dress. But rules you have to follow. That is everywhere. If you think that: 'There are so many rules, I won't follow,' Then you are lost."
Indian man: "Follow some rules."
Young man: "There are some rules, I mean..."
Srila Prabhupada: "Everywhere."
Young man: "Yes."
Srila Prabhupada: "So you have to follow rules. Now it is up to you, which rule you shall follow."
Young man: "Yes."
Srila Prabhupada: "That is your choice. That requires brain."
Young man : "My choice is not to judge anybody, good or bad, or mad or insane."
Srila Prabhupada: "Then you are lost."(22)

BUT WHY SHOULD THERE BE SO MUCH PROTEST?
Fine, even if we agree that it is necessary to discuss, but why do you find it necessary to engage in criticism? First we have to differentiate between fact finding and faultfinding? To present facts and factual events which have taken place and ask intelligent and relevant question to ascertain the proper devotional conclusion and the order of the spiritual master is not faultfinding. Secondly, if there are offensive misconceptions and offensive statements made against the Sampradaya-Acarya Srila Prabhupada and the previous Acaryas, and any of His bona fide disciples and followers, then the Sastras and the Acaryas prescribe a course of action.
"According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in such a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth."(23)
 
"One should not at any time tolerate blasphemy and insults against Lord Visnu or His devotees. A devotee is generally very humble and meek, and he is reluctant to pick a quarrel with anyone. Nor does he envy anyone. However, a pure devotee immediately becomes fiery with anger when he sees that Lord Vishnu or His devotees is insulted. This is the duty of a devotee. Although a devotee maintains an attitude of meekness and gentleness, it is a great fault on his part if he remains silent when the Lord or His devotee is blasphemed."(24)
 
"One should be very meek and humble in his personal transactions, and if insulted a Vaisnava should be tolerant and not angry. But if there is blasphemy against one's guru or another Vaishnava, one should be as angry as fire. This was exhibited by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu."(25)...
DEFINITION OF TRUTHFULLNESS
 
"Satyam, truthfulness, means facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth."(29)
"Satyam. This word means that one should not distort the truth for some personal interest."(30)
A BRAHMANA IS NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK LIES
 
"The Brahmanas.... they must be qualified with twelve high qualifications. We have many times discussed. Out of that qualification, truthfulness is the first item for a brahmana, a ksatriya may speak lies that is allowed, because he has to be diplomat, politician. But a Brahmana, Oh, he is not allowed to speak lies. That is the system."(31)
 
It should be noted that untruthfulness is not a desirable quality for those seeking to advance in spiritual life. Untruthfulness is characterized by Lord Krsna as a demoniac quality. "na satyam tesu vidyate. Neither cleanliness, nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them."( 32)
HOW TO ACQUIRE TRUTHFULLNESS 
AND THE MODE OF GOODNESS?
 
Srila Prabhupada explains that in order to develop the pure qualities in the mode of goodness such as truthfulness, austerity, etc., "one must develop a certain devotional attitude. ... One should hear Bhagavatam with rapt attention from the real person and then only he can at once realize the presence of Lord Krishna in every page of the Bhagavatam. The secret of knowing Bhagavat is mentioned here. No body can give rapt attention who is not pure in mind. No body can be pure in mind who is not pure in action. No body can be pure in action who is not pure in eating, sleeping, fearing and mating. But somehow or other if somebody hears with rapt attention Srimad-Bhagavatam from the right person and at the very beginning of it, one can assuredly see Lord Krishna in person in the pages of Bhagavatam."(33)
THE STORY OF SATYAKAMA JABALA

"Just like in the Jabala Upanisad. This, by symptoms, he was accepted Brahmana, a small boy like this, Satyakam Jabala. Satyakam. He went to Gautama Muni: ' My dear Sir, will you initiate me?' Just like this boy can ask us. Oh, he was very kind: ' Oh, yes very nice boy. What is your father's name?' ' Oh, I do not know.' ' Oh, just ask you mother. Go.' Mother says? Oh, mother says : 'I do not know whose son you are.' He came back. 'What your mother says?' ' Oh, mother says she does not know who is my father.' 'Oh, you are a Brahmana. Oh. you are a Brahmana. Come on. I shall initiate you.' He was so truthful. That is the real symptom of Brahmana. Satya, sama. He does not disclose that 'I do not know.' Everyone will try to hide if he does not know his father's name. But here is a boy. Oh, he said, 'Oh, you are a Brahmana. Come on. I shall initiate you.' This laksana, symptom. Such a truthful boy. 'Never mind what he is born, how he is born.' This system is not new. Therefore we shall have to accept by the symptom. If one is inclined to go to Krsna, he is chanting, he is doing, following the principles, then, according to Narada's version, yasya hi yal laksanam syat, here is the laksana, symptom, varna abhivyanjakam, to understand to what class he belongs. Now he is truthful. He belongs to the Brahmana class."(34)
 
The first qualification of a Brahmana is to become truthful. He will never speak lies. That is the first qualification."(35)
A BRAHMANA NEVER SPEAKS LIES

"First discipline is truthfulness. A Brahmana will never speak lies. That is the first qualification. So who is going to take training in that way. Nobody is interested. This is Kali-Yuga. We are trying to train people. No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Still there are some failures. And if we teach in our institution, 'Please do not speak lies' people will laugh. What is this nonsense. Nowadays is it possible to remain in this society without speaking lies? This is the position."(36)

AND WHAT IS THE RESULT IF 
A BRAHMANA SPEAKS A LIE?
"The Brahmin is the religious preceptor for all other castes and the sannyasins are the spiritual masters for all the castes and orders of society. As such they are very responsible personages in the society... If a Brahmin is not truthful all his claim for the position of Brahmin at once becomes null and void."(37)
 
Before anyone from the managerial commission proposes any debates or disputations, it could be most prudent and advisable to carefully reflect and check to see if any of their former behaviors and philosophies [including verbal and written statements and position papers] might fall in the category of untruth. The consequences could be potentially very damaging as Srila Prabhupada has described in the above purport of the First Canto, Seventeenth chapter, for any of its members or representatives.
WHAT IS THE RESULT OF 
TOO MUCH LYING PROPAGANDA?

idanim dharmapadaste satyam nivartayed yatah
tam jighrikshati adharma ayam anritena edhitah kalih
 
"You are just standing on one leg or by one part of your existing truthfulness and you are somehow or other pulling on with this, but this quarrel personified, being flourished by false representation, is trying to withdraw that also."
Purport
 
The principles of religiosity do not stand on some dogmas or man made formulas but they stand on four primary regulative observances namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness... The resultant action of human civilization in the age of Kali is dissatisfaction of the mind and everyone is anxious to get peace of the mind. This peace of mind was complete in the age of Satya on account of the existence of the above mentioned attributes of human being. Gradually they have diminished in the Treta-Yuga to three fourth, in the Dvapara to half and in this age of Kali it is diminished to one fourth, which is also gradually diminishing on account of prevailing untruthfulness... and by too much lying propaganda truthfulness is lost."(38)...
REFERENCES ~ PART ONE
Citations and quotations used under authority of Title 17 U.S.C., Section 107, Fair use Exception.
1. [His Divine Grace] A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami [Prabhupada], Teachings of Lord Caitanya , Lord Caitanya's mission, xxxvii. (New York, Ny, ISKCON,NY,USA 1968).
2. HDG ACBSP Srila Prabhupada lecture October 25, 1975 Bombay, India (Los Angeles, CA Prabhupada Folio. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, BBT 1991)
3. see item 1. ch. 28.
4. HDG ACBSP Letters from Srila Prabhupada. Vol V To Vasudeva dasa January 23, 1977 (Mexico. BBT 1986.)
5. HDGACBSP Srila Prabhupada lecture on Bhagavad-Gita March 9, 1975 London, England (Los Angeles, CAas in item 2)
6. Peter Viggiani, [Kusakratha dasa] Tattva-Sandarbha. Anuccheda 27. Los Angeles, CA. 1987
7. Narayana Panditacarya, Sri-Madhva-Vijaya 5.12. (Vishakhapatnam, India;Srimad Ananda-Tirtha publications,1983)
8. HDGACBSP Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta Madhya-Lila 9.245 (Los Angeles, CA BBT 1975)
9. ibid Adi-Lila 10.85
10. as in item 2. September 30, 1973
11. HDGACBSP Nectar of Devotion ch.5. p.46. 'Purity of Devotional Service' (Boston, MS ISKCON PRESS 1970)
12. as in section 2 February 7, 1969 Los Angeles, CA.
13. HDGACBSP Science of Self-Realization 'Practicing Yoga in the Modern Age' Ch 5. (Los Angeles, CA BBT 1977)
14. as in item 2. May 22, 1976 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
15. Science of Self-Realization Ch.5. p. 151-152 "Practicing Yoga in the age of Quarrel" (Los Angeles, CA BBT 1977)
16. as in item 2 March 1, 1976. Mayapura, India.
17. as in item 4. Srila Prabhupada letter to Ayodhya Pati dasa, September 22, 1974
18. as in item 8 Adi-Lila 1.46
19. ibid Madhya-Lila 2.117
20. as in item 2. June 30, 1975 Toronto, Canada.
21. as in item 2. May 24, 1974 Rome, Italy.
22. as in item 2 May 8, 1977 Hrisikesha, India.
23. HDGCBSP Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. Ch 10. V 4 . (New York, USA, 1972 The MacMillan Company)
24. HDBACBSP Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.14 32. ( Los Angeles, CA 1974 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust)
25. as in item 8. Adi-Lila 7.50
26 .Yasomatinandana dasa. The ISKCON purification 1987 Unpublished letter.
27. Statement by GBC and Guru late February 1979 Vrindavana, India.
28. ibid
29. as item 23.
30. as in item 23 Ch 16. V 4.
31. as in item 2. March 27, 1969 Honolulu, , USA
32. as in item 23. Ch 16. V 7.
33. HDGACBSP Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.44. (New Delhi, India The League of Devotees, 1962)
34. as in item 2. May 25, 1969. New Vrindavana, India.
35. as in item 2. May 21, 1976 Honolulu, USA.
36. as in item 2, September 12, 1976 Vrindavana, India
37. as in item 33 Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.17.41
38. ibid 1.17.25...

THE TRADITION OF DEBATE

PART 2

 
"BOOKS ARE THE BASIS"

 
THE POSITION OF THE SACRED SASTRAS AND THE COMMENTARIES

OF THE CURRENT SAMPRADAYA-ACARYA,

 
HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA.

Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

also known as The Krishna Consciousness Movement

 

It is imperative for anyone who may wish to suggest a debate or disputation, to consider many of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada's statements regarding the sacred sastras [scriptures). All bona fide Vedic debates and disputations are based on Sastra and the authorized commentaries of the previous acaryas. In our particular case, the importance and position of Srila Prabhupada's original unrevised books and commentaries is supreme. Srila Prabhupada often stated that "Books [His books) are the basis." His original books are solidly based on the foundation of the authentic Vedic sastras and the Puranas and the commentaries of the previous acaryas.

 

Sastra is the center for all.

" The descriptions given in these books are not mundane speculations, but they are authorized versions of liberated souls, presented by our humble self. The strength is not in us, but the strength is in the Supreme Lord. .And we have to simply present them without any adulteration. That is the secret of success." (I)

However, throughout His original books we find that he constantly refers to the sacred sastras as the actual center for establishing the absolute truth.

 
"sruti smrti puranadi pancaratra-vidhim vina
                         aikantiki harer bhakti utpatayaiva kalpate.
 
 Unless one refers to sastra (sruti. smrti and puranadi), one's spiritual activity simply disturbs society." (2)
Sri Caitanva-Caritamrta Madhya-Lila 20.353.

 

"Srila Narottama dasa Thakura says, sadhu sastra guru vakya. cittete kariya aikya. One should accept a thing as genuine by studying the words of saintly people, the spiritual master and sastra. The actual center is sastra, the revealed scripture. If a spiritual master does not speak according to scripture, he is not to be accepted. Similarly, if a saintly person does not speak according to the sastra, he is not a saintly person. Sastra is the center for all. Unfortunately at the present moment people do not refer to the sastra."(3)

 

Not only sentiment.
 

It is sometimes argued that all this logic and debate might be nice but we should just allow the devotional sentiment to prevail.  Why bother to engage in disputations, debate and arguments? Why not just be friendly with everyone and love all the devotees? Such wonderful sentiments are definitely appreciated, however Srila Prabhupada clearly says:

 

" So Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is not sentimental. People think that this is a sentimental movement. No. We have got very good background. If one wants to understand this sankirtana movement through philosophy and learning and logic. Oh, there is ample opportunity. It is not sentimental. It is based on science. It is based on the authority of the Vedas. But it is simplified, that is the beauty of this movement."(4)

 
“..Everything is there, provided they take it. Every1hing will be all right. So this is not a sentimental fanaticism. religious movement. That is scientific movement for the good of the whole world. That we have to convince by our character. by our behavior the people will accept it."(5)

 

Debate on the basis of sastra and the statements of the Sampradaya-Acarya or on the basis of authoritarian dicta?
 

It is very important to differentiate between bona fide Vaishnavas in the authorized Sampradaya following the actual unrevised instructions of Srila Prabhupada and pseudo Vaishnavas. Bona fide Vaishnavas follow the instructions of the Sampradaya-Acarya. Srila Prabhupada. Without change and without concoction. Bona fide authorized Vaishnavas and bona fide acaryas have the greatest respect for the sacred scriptures and the authorized commentaries or the fully realized acaryas. And the first sign of such respect is to present the sacred words and purports of the Acarya as they are without any change, distortion and manufactured conclusions.  However, pretenders and impudent imitators have no respect for the authorized acaryas, although they are most expert at pretending to follow such great authorities. They engage in changing the words of the Sampradaya-Acarya and concoct philosophies not based on the pure and original teachings of the Acarya. One of the most important instructions in this connection is the no change instruction.

 

No change.
 

“.. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. No change. Others they are interpreting in their own way. That is not Bhagavad-Gita. That is something else."(6)

 

“... So in the parampara system in that disciplic succession, you will find no change...you cannot change anything. "(7)\

 

Importance of the sacred sastras and the commentaries of the previous Acaryas.
 

No one can claim to be a bona fide Vaishnava and what to speak of a bona fide Vaishnava Acarya, if he

disrespects and decries the great Purva-Acaryas or predecessor Vaishnava Acaryas, in our case the Sampradaya-Acarya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bbaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and His bona fide predecessors. Ambitious and envious persons in the dress of Vaishnavas and acaryas will often exhibit their envy and disrespect towards the great Acaryas and the sacred Sastras. In various statements and rationalizations to justify how they deviated from the original order of the Sampradaya-Acarya, such less intelligent persons actually display their disregard for the sacred and exalted positions of the acaryas and the sacred scriptures.

 

The potency ofSrila Prabhupada's books.
 

“.. But one thing I may inform you. that the three books which I have already prepared namely the Bhagavad-Gita as it is, Teachings of Lord Caitanya and Srimad-Bhagavatam, all these books are the ultimate source of knowledge. If you simply reproduce what I have tried to explain in those books, surely you will come out victorious, even in the midst of so many mundane scholars. The description given in these books, are not mundane speculations, but they are authorized versions of liberated souls, presented by our humble self. So the strength is not in us, but the strength is in the Supreme Lord. And we have simply to present them without any adulteration. in humble service spirit. That is the secret of success...”(8)

 

Why are Srila Prabhupada's books so potent?
 

Srila Prabhupada repeatedly told us again and again that He did not invent a new philosophy or his own philosophy.He said that His books were simply the presentation of the message of the great Acaryas.

 

Srila Prabhupada: "Thank you. You have read some of my books?"

Guest: "Yes."

Srila Prabhupada: "They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyasadeva, the original Vedic scholar." (9)

 

Ramesvara: "The only hope is to read your books."

Devotees: "Jaya."

Srila Prabhupada: "Not my books, Krsna's books."(IO)

 

Srila Prabhupada's literary contribution will be remembered in history.
 
Brahmananda: "In the airport. And this caused big sensation, because never, even big Indian gurus have come to South Africa. Never have any whites bowed down. It was the first time whites bowed down to..."

Srila Prabhupada: "They clapped. After hearing me, they clapped. They purchased books. Now they are selling books. Some think my books are more important We shall give more concentration for pushing and publishing. What do you think?"

Tamala Krsna: "Yes. That is our weapons. They are our strength, they are our guidance, and they are our

ammunition. Everything is based on these books, everything. We are..."

Srila Prabhupada: "One Indian. a very learned scholar in Chandigarh, he has given very good certificate. What is that?"

Satsvarupa: "He said that 'There have been many commentaries on the Bhagavad-Gita including Ramanuja,

Madhva and Sankara,' and then, he said 'Tilak and Gandhi, but of all of them the commentary by A.C.

Bhaktivedanta Swami is the greatest commentary. ‘Punjab University.'  Then he said later that ' In this suffering mankind, God has sent His Holiness A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.”

Srila Prabhupada: "So, let us do our duty. Our attempt Krsna will see. That gentleman has written," Swami Bhaktivedanta will be remembered for centuries, making history." Is not that?"

Satsvarupa: "Unsurpassed," this...Not just remembered, it will be unsurpassed."

Srila Prabhupada: "And many foreign scholars also, they have. In France... In France one professor has said, the...

Satsvarupa: "Chenique?"

Srila Prabhupada: "Aurobindo and Dr. RadhaKrishnan, they have compromised with the Western idea, but here is the real tradition of India." Actually it is a fact. All of them, they have tried to make a hodge podge. And from the beginning my idea was I shall present as it is. That's all. Therefore I gave this name. "As it is." Caitanya Mahaprabhu said yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa. Why shall I manufacture idea? Present this as it is." (II)

 

It is not humanly possible to write so many books.
 

Srila Prabhupada: "Are you reading sometimes my books? Which one?"

George Harrison: "Mainly Krsna."

Srila Prabhupada: "That is the main book." [laughs)

George Harrison: "Mukunda gave me the new books, but there's so much to read."

Srila Prabhupada: "Philosophy."

George Harrison: "I don't know how anybody could have written it, it's is difficult to read all that amount"

Srila Prabhupada: "Sometimes, they are surprised how one man can write so many books, but it is Krsna' s grace.  Otherwise, not possible. Human being, it is not possible."(12)

 

As It Is. No Addittion. No alteration.
 

Aksayananda: Preach more, then that would help? Because he was previously a principal of a school."

Srila Prabhupada: "No, how he is preaching? Have you heard? No you cannot understand in Hindi."

Aksayananda: "Hindi."

Srila Prabhupada: "Anyone?"

Dhananjaya: "We have been told he preaches nicely."

Srila Prabhupada: "I have told him that 'You simply read My books and reproduce it. That's all. That will be preaching. '"

Aksayananda: "At least when he speaks to me in English, it is always very nice."

Brahmananda: "He can memorize Prabhupada's books and then just speak it."

Srila Prabhupada: "That is preaching. Our process is anusmuyat. We hear from the superior and reproduce it. That is sravanam-kirtanam. Then perfect. If I add something, my own imagination, then it will spoil. No addition. alteration; As It Is. As it is your hear from your spiritual master, reproduce. That's all. Yare dekha tare kaha krsna upadesa. This Krsna-upadesa is coming by parampara, so you reproduce. That's all. Even a child can reproduce what he has heard from his father. It is not at all difficult." (13)

What will your three minutes preaching do?
“If you sell a book to someone, that is better than your speaking to them, what will your three minutes preaching do? If they read a book [Srila Prabhupada's original books] it may turn their life."(14)

 

How to associate with the Sampradaya-Acarya: Srila Prabhupada.
 

Indian man: "[we] like your company very much in Toronto and we feel like talk you so much, but we don't have so much time to talk with you. You have so much mercy, so we have not known much about Krsna from you."

Srila Prabhupada: "So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in the books. That's all."

Indian man: "Personally we think more greater."

Srila Prabhupada: "That's all right. But still, you can associate with me by reading My books."(1S)

“I am pleased to hear that you are chanting 16 rounds daily and reading my books regularly and following the four rules. In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual will develop. Krishna Consciousness is not a hackneyed thing but it is something which is our natural and original consciousness. You may please me most by reading my books, and following the instructions therein and by becoming fully Krishna conscious in this life time."(16)

 

The authority of the Sampradaya-Acarya, Srila Prabhupada.
 

Srila Prabhupada: "I am surprised how I have written so many, [books] what to speak of them? It is all Krsna's mercy."

Dhira Krsna: "One professor the other day was trying to convince one of our boys that you were coming in the disciplic succession and were authorized to translate all these books."

Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, that is right."

Dhira Krsna: "Because he was dressed and he didn't know that he was your disciple, so he was saying,

'Bhaktivedanta Swami, he is coming in a disciplic line straight from Krsna. That's why he can speak on all these books. '
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, that is a fact. That authority I have got. That's a fact. tasyaite kathita hyarthah
prakasante mahatmanah. They become manifest. all the meanings of the Vedic literature. ya.sya deve para
bhaktih."(l7)
 

Great danger of disrespecting the great authoritative acaryas.
 
Srila Prabhupada describes this tendency in His purport to the lsa Upanisad:

 
‘..By false religious sentiments they [the pseudo-religionists) present a make-show of devotional service, indulging

in all sorts of immoral principles and still pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession; and to mislead people in general they themselves become so-called acaryas, without even following the principles of the acaryas."(l8)

 

“So this is the fact, that Krsna will never tolerate insult on a devotee.He will never tolerate. The devotee may excuse, trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. He may suffer. Just like Prahlada Maharaja, he was suffering. His father was torturing him. He was suffering, .All right.' But Krsna never tolerated. ' Oh, you have done so much. Now, it the time to kill him.' This is the process. Krsna will tolerate. If you insult Krsna. He will tolerate, but if you insult his devotee, he will never tolerate. Then you are finished. Then you are finished." (19)

 

The mentality of the critics of the bona fide acaryas.
 

"The bona fide spiritual master always engages in unalloyed devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By this test he is known to be a direct manifestation of the Lord and a genuine representative of Sri Nityananda Prabhu. Such a spiritual master is known as acaryadeva. Influenced by an envious temperament and dissatisfied because of an attitude of sense gratification, mundaners criticize a real acarya. In fact a bona fide acarya is non-different from the Personality of Godhead."(20)

 

Srila Prabhupada established that "Books are the basis" for the Krsna Consciousness movement. The original books and writings of His Divine Grace AC. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada constitute the fundamental basis and the authority of the Suddha-Vaishnava movement promulgated by Srila Prabbupada. Thus, prior to His departure for Goloka Vrindavana. Srila Prabbupada, expressed his serious concerns about change which had been made in His books during His manifested presence. Let us examine some of the various categories of deviations. plaguing the GBC and its self-appointed acaryas. This will help us to keep in perspective the various contradictions and shaky philosophical position of the proponents of a so-called debate.

 

1) CHANGING THE SACRED WORDS AND PURPORTS OF THE ACARYA.
 
Devotee: “But sometimes to make better English, I think they were making philosophical mistakes also. There is not so much need of making so much better English. Your English is sufficient. It is very clear, very simple. We have caught over 125 changes. They're changing so many things. We are wondering if this is necessary. 1will show you today. I have kept the book,"

Srila Prabhupada: "I know that these rascals are doing. What can be done? How can they be relied on?"

Svarupa Damodara: "It's not the responsibility of the BBT trustee, to see these things don't change without

Prabhupada's sanction."

Srila Prabhupada: "How to check this? How to stop this?"

Tarnala Krsna: "They should not make any changes without consulting Jayadvaita."

Srila Prabhupada: "But they are doing without authority."

Svarupa Damodara: "1 think we should make whole survey, all books already printed, before printing the next  batch and check any mistakes so that it should be corrected. Otherwise, if the scholars find out that there are so many mistakes in the books. then the quality and the appreciation will be reduced...Yes, we find so far that they are appreciating so much within the scholarly circle, and we want to maintain that actually."

Srila Prabhupada: "Very serious feature. It is not possible for me to check, and they are doing all nonsense,

freedom."

Devotee: "Jaya Srila Prabhupada."

Srila Prabhupada: "What to do?"

Tamala Krsna: "I think Svarupa Damodara's point, that all the books should be checked before they're reprinted again... And they have to be checked not by some so-called learned Sanskrit man but by a learned devotee."

Srila Prabhupada: "It is a very serious situation. R is in direct."

Svarupa Damodara: "I think they're working too independently without consulting properly."

Devotee: ., Sometimes they appeal that 'We can make better English,' so they change like that, just like in the case of Isopanisad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is

there. When they change, it is something else."

Svarupa Damodara: "That's actually a very dangerous mentality."

Devote: "What is it going to be in five years? It's going to be a different book."

Srila Prabhupada: " So you...What are you doing... it is a very serious situation. You write one letter that 'Why you have made so many changes?' And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there? Write to Satsvarupa that. 'This is the position, They are doing anything and everything at their whim' The next printing should be again

the original way." (21)

 

Later on in the conversation Prabhupada gives an order not to change anything.

 

Srila Prabhupada: “So you bring this to Satsvarupa. They cannot change anything."(22)

 

The result or changing the Acarya's books is that the authority is lost.
 

Paramahansa: "People... I've talked to professors who know the original Hebrew and the original tongues that the

Bible was written in. They say that it has changed so much that you can hardly."

Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, they are changing, lust like he said 'Thou shall not kill.' They are now changing, Thou shall not commit murder.' They are doing that."

Paramahamsa: "Yes. They have a modem Bible, using all modem terminology."

Srila Prabhupada: "So when you change the authority is lost. Just like in our society, sometimes they do something nonsense and they say, Prabhupada said'... We know that it is deteriorated like that."

Ganesa: "Srila Prabhupada. if the knowledge was handed down by the saintly kings, evam parampara praptam how is it that the knowledge was lost

Srila Prabhupada: "When it was not handed down. Simply understood by speculation. Or if it is not handed down as it is. They might have made some changes. Or they did not hand it down. Suppose I handed it down to you, but if you do not do that. then it is lost. Now the Krishna Consciousness movement is going on in my presence. Now after my departure, if you do not do this, then it is lost. If you go as you are doing now, then it will go on. But if you stop..."(23)

 

The vikara-vadis [change advocates] should take serious note of the above warnings by Srila Prabhupada.

Changing the words of the acarya is a very serious business with serious consequences.

 

Disobedience of the Acarya’s Order?
 

It is important to note that as of writing of this essay, the original corrections of several books have never been returned to the "original way," as specifically ordered by His Divine Grace. This was the direct order of Srila Prabhupada. As such the original editions of Sri lsopanisad, Easy Journey to Other Planets, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Srimad-Bhagavatarn, First Canto, Second Canto, etc. still remain in their unauthorized changed edited format. It is also significant to note that Srila Prabhupada also told one Gurukula teacher in Vrindavana: 'You can tell them [the GBC] that if they change one word from my books. it will spoil everything I have done.'(24)

 

The proponents of a so-called debate have yet to return Srila Prabhupada's books their original first printed

editions. Before they can be allowed to present their views and opinions in a so-called debate, they first must return Srila Prabhupada's books to their original first printed edition condition, as ordered by Srila Prabhupada.

 

2) IN CONSULTATION WITH WHOM? Marcb 1978.
 

“First offense is guror avajna, defying the authority of the guru. This is the first offense. So one who is offensive. how he can make advance in chanting? He cannot make. Then everything is finished in the beginning. Guror avajna. Everything is there. If one disobeys the order of the spiritual master, he cannot remain in the pure status of life. He cannot be siksa-guru or anything else; he is finished immediately...The first offense is to disobey the orders of guru. That is first offense. So if you are offensive, how can you become advanced by chanting? That is also not possible?"(2S)

 

In late March of 1978, the Governing Body Commission [GBC] of the International Society for Krsna Consciousness [ISKCON] convened for its annual meeting at Mayapura. West Bengal, India. This was the first annual meeting since the departure of the Founder-Acarya on the 14th November of 1977. The members of the managerial commission took it upon themselves to go and seek advice from outside of the books and self-evident instructions of Srila Prabhupada, the actual authority for IS.KCON. They chose to consult other authorities than the sacred words and instructions of their spiritual master. This was reflected in the second line of their paper to the entire Krsna Conscious Society. The title of the paper was "The process for carrying out Srila Prabhupada's desires for future initiations," (a paper prepared by the GBC in consultation with higher authorities, Mayapur, March 1978)"

 It is helpful to remind ourselves that many of the current philosophical deviations and concepts of the GBC and its acaryas have their origin with certain alleged authorities consulted by the GBC after Srila Prabhupada' departure for Goloka-Vrindavana. The very title of this report raises a series of questions which the GBC still has to give satisfactory explanations. First, they used the term' authorities' in the plural sense. This brings up several questions:

1) Who were these 'authorities?'

2) When did Srila Prabhupada ever say that there were other authorities than Him to be consulted for the

management and practical spiritual direction of His movement?

3) Where did He ever describe in His original books about consulting with outside authorities?

Further, the term "higher authorities" still has not been clarified by them. Again more unanswered questions rernain.

 1) Who are these "homer authorities?"

2) When did Srila Prabhupada ever say that there were "higher authorities" than Him for the practical application of the Krsna Consciousness philosophy and the management of His movement?

3) Where in His books and teachings did Srila Prabhupada ever recommend to go to outside and seek the advice of "higher authorities?"

 

The use of the plural sense is also troubling because. if the GBC claims that Prabhupada authorized them to go and consult some of his Godbrothers or one elderly saintly Godbrother of Srila Prabhupada in particular, they are then caught in a contradiction of their own making. There is an ample body of evidence [which is now finally available) to suggest that this was not desired by Srila Prabhupada for His institution and His movement.

 

."We shall not make the same mistake in our Iskcon camp." (26)

 

"Now I have issued orders that all my disciples should avoid all of my Godbrothers. They should not have any dealings with them nor even correspondence. Nor. nor should they give them any of my books or should they purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them." (27)

 

It should be noted that the above order of Srila Prabhupada was never amended or altered from November of 1975

up to His departure in November of 1977. If the GBC intended to refer to a singular "higher authority:' the wording was actually incorrect. The ramifications of making such a statement would be very deep. However. Were they indirectly referring to themselves as "higher authorities?" Was the new advisor now considered a higher authority than Prabhupada by the authors of this March 1978 paper? If that was the logic and thinking at the time they should have used the word authority? Of course this would have begged a whole series of fresh questions? Who is a higher authority than Prabhupada in His own society and movement etc? Another consideration is whether the individuals who drafted this so-called authoritative paper considered themselves "higher authorities" than their own guru? If they did not consider themselves higher than their own guru, and were truly and actually following his instructions, orders and desires as expressed in His original books, then what was the necessity to go and consult with "higher authorities," without the permission of their own authority, Srila Prabhupada? If one is fixed in the order of the spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, then why does he need to go and consult other "higher authorities," not authorized by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

 Thus the unauthorized consultation with “higher authorities” was the beginning of a long list of deviations and transgressions of Srila Prabhupada’s order. This would soon manifest as a result of the impudent disobedience of the order and the neglect of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and books. All necessary information and knowledge necessary for the practice and preaching of Krsna Consciousness is found in Srila Prabhupadas’s original books.

 

"If death takes place let it take place here. So there is nothing to be said new, whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue with your endeavor.   Whether I am present or not present. it doesn't matter. As Krsna is living eternally, similarly living being also lives eternally."(28)

 

Gargamuni [letter to Prabhupada] "We fervently pray that Your Divine Grace continue to remain in this world because we need your personal guidance. Even when Lord Krsna left disappeared, Arjuna lost all strength temporarily. "

Srila Prabhupada: " I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja."(29)

 Paramananda: "We're always feeling your presence very strongly. Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions."

Srila Prabhupada: "Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important."(30)

 It is obvious from the above conversations that the individuals who decided, and on their own volition and without Srila Prabhupada's authority, to go and consult with higher authorities [themselves?], did not understand or believe in the above instructions of His Divine Grace, Srila Prabhupada. Thus a dangerous precedent of minimization and disobedience of Srila Prabhupada' s instructions was set.

 

3) REJECTING THE AUTHORITY OF SRILA PRABHUPADA AND THE PREVIOUS ACARYAS.
 26 February 1977. Vrindavana, India

In late February of 1979, the entire GBC body and its various "appointed gurus" assembled in Vrindavana to allegedly calm the various concerns of numerous local devotees. The various devotees had expressed their concerns and disagreements over the issue of the installation of large Vyasa-asanas in the direct presence of Srila Prabhupada in His temple rooms and the perceived displacement of Srila Prabhupada as the center and focus of His movement. The issue of whether the "appointed gurus" had factually been appointed or selected in the capacity of Diksa-Guru was a non-issue. since the GBC refused to even discuss or open up this particular point. When various scriptural evidences were presented to the entire GBC body to the effect that it is an offense and it is forbidden in the sastras to accept separate worship in front of one's own spiritual master, the GBC categorically rejected the evidence. They stated: 'This is not in Prabhupada's books, therefore we cannot accept this.' When it was further argued that 'The statements of Srila Jiva Goswarni Prabhupada and Srila Sanatana Goswarni are as good as Srila Prabhupada's statements because they are the original Acaryas of our Sampradaya," the reply was 'We are not going to accept this evidence, because Prabhupada did not quote this directly in His books.'(31)

 Thus, in direct disobedience of Srila Prabhupada' s instructions and the sacred Sastras and the statements of our previous authoritative Acaryas, the GBC chose to deliberately disobey their instructions. They adamantly insisted that large Vyasa-asanas should remain in Srila Prabhupada's temple rooms and that the "appointed acaryas" should accept worship in front of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. Thus the GBC and its 'self appointed gurus' established a double fault in their philosophical position.

 

1)      Sruti sastra nindanam.
They impudently rejected the authority of the previous Acaryas and the sacred sastric statements of the Acaryas, [specifically Srila Jiva Goswarni Prabhupada and Srila Sanatana Goswarni), which are the real explanation of the sacred sastras, by disobeying their authoritative sacred statements and injunctions thus minimizing and belittling their importance,

 

ajnas casraddhadhanas ca samsayatma vinasyati
nayam !oko 'srina paro na su/chamsamsayatmanah
 

"Persons who are almost like animals have no faith in or knowledge of, the standard revealed scriptures; and some of them. even though they have knowledge of, or can cite passages from the revealed scriptures, have actually no faith in these words. Such persons cannot have any standing in Krsna Consciousness. They fall down. Out of all the above mentioned persons, those who have no faith and are always doubtful make no progress at all... In other words doubtful persons have no status whatsoever in spiritual emancipation. One should therefore follow in the footsteps of great acaryas who are in the disciplic succession and thereby attain success."(32)

 

2)      Acarya-ninda- insulting the Acarya.
The GBC simultaneously insulted and offended His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada by choosing to maintain the large unauthorized Vyasa-asanas and accept separate simultaneous worship in front of Him, despite the fact that they had been told that this constituted an offense against the spiritual master. This went on for almost ten years after having received direct Sastric evidence that this was a serious transgression and offense.  They continued and accepted direct worship in front of Him, and thus daily insulted him. The result is that persons who were still struggling with anarthas were and still are being promoted as being full fledged acaryas in the parampara.

 Accepting and rejecting the authority or the great Acaryas, the mayavadi technique.
 

"This is a devotee, that I accept everything, whatever you say 'This is devotee, not that I make some amendment and then I accept. And this is nonsense. You cannot'...This is called ardha-kukkuti-nyaya means one man was keeping a hen. and it was delivering every day a golden egg. So the man thought. 'It is very profitable, but it is expensive to feed this hen, better cut the head so I shall save the expenditure of feeding her, and I'll get the eggs without charge.' So these rascals. they take. accept sastras like that. 'Oh. this is not... That is very expensive. Cut this portion.' And when Krsna says' Anyone who sees me in everyone.' '011. that is very palatable.' And when Krsna says: 'You give up everything, you surrender...' 'Oh. That is not palatable.' And this is ardha-kukkutinyaya. So people accept sastras in that way. the mayavadis."(33)

 

"Logically. if one accepts half the truth. he cannot understand the whole." (34)

 

"So there are many who actually do not follow the principles of sastra. but they have got some faith. Then what is the result of such mentality? ye sastra vidhim utsrjya: "Not following the sastra-vidhi. the regulative principle mentioned in the sastras," yajante sradhayanvitah. they also make one guru or incarnation or this or that there are so many going on. So what is the result of such activities? This is very important question because there are so many pseudo so-called gurus. They do not know what is Sastra, neither do they follow the principle. Still. They gather some people, and the world is full with such not bona fide gathering. So, but they have faith in their so-called guru that some way or other, so called meditation... These things are going on. So what is the result of this? It is very important question. ye sastra vidhim utsrjya yajante sraddha yanvitah. But they have got faith. faith is there but misguided."(35)

 

"And if he does not follow the instruction of the spiritual master he is a rascal. He is defying the authority. That's all."(36)

  

The question may be raised as to why this incident which took place in 1979, is still being cited. The answer is that many of the GBC's current philosophical positions and arguments are now based on some esoteric statements of some books of Srila Iiva Goswami Prabhupada and Srila Sanatana Goswami. The GBC later changed their views when they deemed it convenient to rationalize their position. And they do misinterpret those statements.  So on one hand the GBC and its self-appointed gurus claim that the scriptural evidence presented in 1979 had to be rejected since it was not contained in Srila Prabhupada's books. Now they claim that the writings of these Acaryas should be accepted, when they quote it to attempt to evidence some of their pet theories regarding re-initiations and gurus becoming demons. One year they reject the authority of the acaryas, the next year they allegedly cite the same acaryas to defend their speculative theories. Thus the proponents of a so-called debate would have to answer this contradiction before they can hope to present any apologists or panditas to defend their position. For no one can claim to be a bona fide Vaishnava, if he rejects the authority of the predecessor acaryas, what to speak of debating contentious points of Vaishnava philosophy. If one has no respect for the Sarnpradaya-Acarya's words and sastras, and for the predecessor acaryas's statements then what is his position? Thus they must first answer the following questions.

 I) Why did the GBC and its panditas chose to disobey the injunctions of Srila Jiva Goswami Prabhupada and Srila Sanatana Goswami when it was directly presented to them, regarding the offense of accepting separate worship in front of the Acarya, Srila Prabhupada?

 2) What is the position of a Vaisnava acarya or a group of Vaishnava Acaryas who disobey the injunctions of the previous acaryas?

 First of all it is important to remember that a bona fide spiritual master never deviates from the instructions of Lord Krishna and the previous acaryas.

 

"A bona fide spiritual master... never deviates at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord..."(37)

 

"The spiritual master is never deviated from the path of the authorities."(38)

 

"The spiritual master must never be carried away by an accumulation of wealth or a large number of followers.  A bona fide spiritual master will never become like that."(39)

 

Result of disobeying the order of the guru.
 

Hrdayananda: "He wants to know if the greatest offense is to disobey the guru."

Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, that is the first offense. Guror ava}na sruti sastra nindanam... If you accept guru and again disobey him, then what is your position? You are not a gentleman. You promise before guru, before Krsna, before fire, that .I shall obey your order: I shall execute this,' and again you do not do this. Then you are not even a gentleman, what to speak of a devotee. This is common sense."(40)

 

"First offense is guror avajnam. defying the authority of guru. This is the first offense. So one who is offensive. how he can make advance in chanting? He cannot make. Then everything is finished in the beginning? Guror avajna. Everything is there. If one is disobeying the order of the spiritual master, he cannot remain in the pure status of life. He cannot be siksa-guru or anything else. He is finished immediately." (41)

 

"You sing everyday. Guru mukha padma vakya cittete kariya aikya. That is the process. Wherever you live, if you follow strictly the instruction of guru, then-you remain perfect. But if we create, concoct ideas against the instruction of guru, then we are doomed, hell. Yasyaprasada bhagavat prasada yasya prasadan na gatih kuto'pi. There is no more shelter, finished."(42)

 

From the above statements of His Divine Grace, one can see that the transgressions of changing His books,

suppressing Srila Prabhupada's letters, and disobeying His instructions to return his books to their original format is a very serious deviation and disobedience of the acarya's order.

 4) SASTRAS ARE INCONCLUSIVE IN THEMSELVES?
 August 17, 1980.   In July of 1980, a GBC and guru from Southern California [now former guru) decided to remove His Vyasa-asana from Srila Prabhupada's temple rooms. He informed His initiates that Srila Prabhupada should now be the exclusive center of worship for all of his followers and for all the devotees in his "zone"! He wrote two papers attempting to explain his position. Many, if not most devotees were very sympathetic to the idea. The concept of a senior devotee initiating devotees and guiding them to exclusively worship Srila Prabhupada was viewed by most devotees in the "zone" as a solution to the divisive and chaotic system of the then prevailing "zonal gurus" and their impudent imitation of Srila Prabhupada.

 Prof. E. Burke Rochford, Jr. analyzed the changes proposed by the Southern California Guru: ..”The guru from the Western zone in America [Rarnesvara Swami] sought to have the spiritual role of the new gurus redefined theologically. It was his view that because the gurus had shown themselves to be fallible and therefore not pure in their Krishna Consciousness, which their guru status required, the formal role of the gurus should be altered.  In particular he believed that the gurus were not worthy of the level of worship that they had been receiving from their disciples. He wanted that level of worship to be reserved for Srila Prabhupada, the true acarya. Western guru argued that the new gurus should serve only as Prabhupada’s representatives. The gurus would initiate disciples into Krishna Consciousness on Prabhupada’s behalf, instead of their own behalf... Western guru believed that the proper role of the new gurus should be to link their disciples directly to Srila Prabhupada. Acceptance of this interpretation of the role of the new ISKCON guru would have limited drastically the independent authority of the gurus. In a symbolic gesture, Western guru had his Vyasa-Asana removed from the temples in his zone and discontinued Guru puja [his own guru puja]. Despite the fact that this proposal had the support of many of Prabhupada's disciples, the GBC under pressure from the other ten ISKCON gurus, overruled Western Guru's proposals to restructure the guru system." (43)

 Professor E. Burk~Rochford. Jr. Hare Krsna in America Chapter 9. The end of Charisma. Page 234-235.

The GBC and its various "zonal" appointed gurus"swiftly reacted by convening an emergency meeting in Dallas, Texas in August of 1980. A sort of emergency fire brigade to douse the fires of rebellion. After severely chastising the "deviant guru brother" who had the audacity to attempt to reestablish the exclusive worship of the Acarya Srila Prabhupada in Srila Prabhupada's temples. the GBC had to calm the various devotees who were protesting its various policies and its convoluted and often contradictory philosophies. The issue of guru worship in Srila Prabhupada's temples was the most controversial at the time, and the one which was alienating the most devotees. The GBC had to respond swiftly to attempt to calm the masses. They released a paper to the entire society from Dallas. Texas on August 17. 1980.

 While the GBC paper itself has been critiqued by numerous devotees, the purpose of this section is not to engage in a detailed refutation. but to show how the technique employed by the various gurus and members of the GBC was a serious deviation from the proper understanding of the role of sastra or scriptural reference in the matter of debates and Vedic disputations. In addition there is a serious problem when a guru miscites and misquotes his own guru. This is not in line with the standard of the great Acaryas. These miscitations and discrepancies may not be evident to the unsuspecting reader through simple cursory reading, but careful study and thorough analysis of the original texts and letters cited will display the GBC's blatant disregard for scriptural authority as well as a propensity for distortion and misrepresentation.

GBC statement:

 

"Certainly all ISKCON standards are based on sastra, but sastra has to be understood as ISKCON's Founder-Acarya Srila Prabhupada taught and demonstrated. This is the meaning of mahajano yena gala sa pantha.   In that verse, even the sastras are declared inconclusive in themselves; the truth must be learned from the Mahajana.   Srila Prabhupada is ISKCON's greatest authority, and from the Vedic literatures He has selected and established these principles we must follow."(44)

 

The above statement does contain some truths, however, there is a dangerous misinterpretation inserted there. On one hand it appears that the authors of the GBC paper are glorifying Srila Prabhupada by placing his importance as the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON in a unique perspective, Further they argue that the standards of ISKCON are based on Srila Prabhupada's example and that He is the greatest authority of ISKCON and the Mahajana.  Yet they proceed to simultaneously insult him by distorting his translation of that verse in the Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta.  On one hand the Panditas of the managerial commission claimed that Srila Prabhupada is ISKCON's greatest authority, yet while this was being written [August 1980] they already had done and/or were in the process of doing the following:

 1) They already had disregarded the scriptural and traditional authority of the great Acaryas such as Srila Jiva Goswami and Srila Sanatana Goswami in February of 1979 [see section#2 ], and

2) They had already neglected to return His authoritative books to their original condition as requested by Srila Prabhupada, [section #1]and .

 3) They had already suppressed the availability of crucial and most important conversations in the last days of His Divine Grace's manifested presence. [section # 6]

 4) And now they were in the process of misrepresenting the Acarya' s words in His own translation of the verse mahajano yena gatha sa panthah.
Let us examine Srila Prabhupada's translations of the famous verse mahajano yena gala sa panthah from the Maha-Bharata. This verse is cited twice in the Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, once in Madhya-Lila 17.186, and once in Madhya-Lila 25-57, Both of Srila Prabhupada's English translations are identical.

 

"Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued: 'Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not differ from others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated one cannot come to the right path by which religious principles are understood. The solid truth of religious principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated self-realized person. Consequently as the sastras confirm, one should accept whatever progressive path the Mahajanas advocate.",

 

"This is a verse spoken by Yudhisthira Maharaja in the Maha-Bharata, Vana Parva (313.117)"(45)

 Thus the official managerial commission's interpretation that "the sastras are declared inconclusive in themselves" is quite different than the authorized translation of Srila Prabhupada which reads "dry arguments are inconclusive." What is noteworthy here is that of the 5 members who wrote this paper on behalf of the managerial commission, four of them were actually members of the original self "appointed acaryas."

 This naturally brings up more questions.

 

I) Which sastra did the "appointed acaryas" and authors of the managerial commission paper consult before writing this speculative idea that "the sastras are declared inconclusive in themselves?" It could not have been from Srila Prabhupada's words since they are categorically different than their concocted version?

 

2) Which previous bona fide acarya or acaryas in the bona fide Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Parampara ever misquoted and misrepresented the actual words of their guru? And what is the position of a guru or acarya who misrepresents the actual statements of His guru?

 

3) If according to the managerial commission's scholars, the "sastras are declared inconclusive in themselves," then why do they bother quoting the "inconclusive sastras" to support their conclusions? Why cite and quote a body of texts [sastras] which they deem to be "inconclusive in themselves?"

 

4) What kind of conclusion will the Panditas reach by referring to the "inconclusive sastras"?

 

5) The traditional orthodox understanding of the position of a bona fide realized acarya is that whatever he speaks is directly inspired and directed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Srila Prabhupada often stated that whatever the pure devotee acarya speaks it is to be understood that the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates from within. Were these Acaryas inspired by Sri Krsna to misrepresent Srila Prabhupada, Lord Sri Krsna' s pure devotee? And also to misrepresent the Sastras?

 

If after so much research and scriptural analysis, the members of the managerial commission's research team have reached a conclusion that the "sastras are declared in conclusive by themselves," and then they allege that such a statement in found in the Maha-Bharata verse translated by Srila Prabhupada in the Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, then regardless of what discussions and conclusions the managerial commission's Panditas reach it will ultimately be inconclusive, as per their own statements.

 There are several points to conclude from the above statements:

 

I) The GBC acaryas and Panditas misrepresented the actual original statements of Srila Prabhupada

 

2) They also simultaneously misrepresented the meaning of the verse from the Maha-Bharata cited in the Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta.

 

3) They have put forward a misleading contradiction.

 

4) By insisting that all the members of the Krsna Consciousness society should accept their statements, and declarations, even though untrue, they propagated falsehoods in the position of acaryas, and apa-siddhanta or misrepresentation of the sacred sastras.

 

5) If any of the Panditas and scholars of the GBC wish to debate any philosophical contentions they should not quote from "the sastras which are declared inconclusive in themselves," or else the participants in a so-called debate should first publicly disassociate themselves from any members of the GBC, or the entire GBC, who have written and participated in the propagation of the "inconclusive sastra" falsehood and misleading propaganda.

 

5) CHANGING THE ORIGINAL "BHAGAVAD-GITA AS IT IS" OF THE ACARYA. 1977-1983
 Srila Prabhupada hinted several times about the secret of His success. He told His devotees that He was only presenting the same message and the exact same instruction that He received from His Guru Maharaja, with no change. This is the real essence of the continuation of the disciplic succession. In 1983the GBC and the then BBT trustees unauthorizedly allowed the original unabridged edition of the Bhagavad-Gita [1972] edition to be changed on the plea of restoration of grammatical correctness and embellishment. They allowed hundreds of changes to take place in many of Srila Prabhupada's translations and purports. It is important to mention at this point that neither the GBC and their so-called authorized restoration specialists have ever produced one verifiable quote or direct order from Srila Prabhupada where He gave the order or the instruction to change His original translations and purports from the unabridged Bhagavad-Gita [1972 edition]. On the contrary, He has given hundreds of quotes and citations where He says not to change, not to alter the sastra, [original scriptural texts and purports of the Acarya]. We hereby cite a few excerpts from these instructions of Srila Prabhupada to illustrate the point.

 We do not change.
 "'We are therefore presenting Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. no change. We do not change. Anybody seriously reading our book. he'll be liberated. There is no doubt. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eii. That's a fact, if not all books, simply Krsna book. if one reads carefully, daily, he is liberated undoubtedly."(46)

 Our books must remain as they are.
 “Our literature is not sentimental stories. It is meant to be understood by the intelligent class of men. Children and those with child-like mentalities will do better to chant "Hare Krishna” and take prasadam. We cannot water down the philosophy to make it more palatable. Our books must remain as they are. Do not waste your time anymore with such attempts. We are not going to publish it. Whatever books we have got. let them try to understand, and if they cannot then let them chant "Hare Krishna" and take prasadam." (47) .

 Do not change.
 "So if you read Bhagavad-Gita as it is, that is mad-asrayah. But if you interpret Bhagavad-Gita according to your rascal imagination, that is not Bhagavad-Gita. Therefore it is called mad-asrayah, 'under my protection', as I am teaching ...We are therefore presenting, we do not change. Why should you change. What right you have to change? Bhagavad-Gita is a book of authority and if I make my own interpretation, then where is the authority? Can you change the lawbook according to your interpretation? Then what is the meaning of that lawbook? That is not lawbook. You cannot change. Similarly, if you accept Bhagavad-Gita as the book of authority, you cannot change the meaning. THAT IS NOT ALLOWED. What right? If you have got some opinion, if you have got some philosophy, you can write in your own book. Why you are, I mean to say, killing others and yourself by interpreting Bhagavad-Gita? You give your own thesis in a different way. But these people they take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-Gita and interpret in a different way according to their own whims. Therefore people do not understand what is Krsna. That is the difficulty. And the purpose of Bhagavad-Gita is to understand Krsna. And the so-called scholar and politician's commentary is to banish Krsna or to kill Krsna. the Kamsa's policy - The Kamsa was always thinking of Krsna how to kill Him. This is called demonic endeavor. So that will not help you."(48)

 The official explanation from the GBC and the editorial Pandits
 The GBC and their editorial Panditas often reply that the Bhagavad-Gita As It Is was not changed. but it was restored as close as possible to its manuscript condition to reflect the original dictation of Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. Their explanation of why they have undertaken the task to "restore" or change the original 1972 Gita edition is given on page 866 of the revised edition. We hereby cite from the GBC official explanation

.. A note about the second edition"

 .. Srila Prabhupada finished Bhagavad-Gita As It Is in 1967. two years after He came from India to America. The Macmillan Company published an abridged edition in 1968 and the first unabridged edition in 1972." After giving a brief summary of the early efforts and struggles of the English and Sanskrit editors in their efforts to properly edit Srila Prabhupada's original dictations and how they had to deal "with heavily accented English hard to follow and his Sanskrit quotations strange to their ears, “the Panditas continued their explanations of how they achieved the current revised edition. They state:

..And now they were able to see their way through perplexities in the manuscript by consulting the same Sanskrit commentaries Srila Prabhupada consulted when writing Bhagavad-Gita As It Is."  The result is a work of even greater richness and authenticity. The word-for-word Sanskrit-English equivalents now follow more closely the standard of Srila Prabhupada's other books and are therefore more clear and precise. In places the translations, though already correct, have been revised to come closer to the original Sanskrit and to Srila Prabhupada's original dictation. In the Bhaktivedanta purports, many passages lost to the original edition have been restored to their places."(49) There are a few problems with some of these explanations.

 No verifiable evidence from Srila Prabhupada Himself.
 

A)         Where is the order to change?
 

The restoration specialists and the GBC appointed Panditas have not provided any verifiable evidence from direct statements of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada where He directly ordered them to revise His original edition of Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. Although they have claimed that their revision was authorized, the question remains, authorized by whom?

 

B)            Plenty of time to advise a change.
 

An undertaking of this magnitude must have the permission of and authority of the original author, Srila

Prabhupada. The original complete and unabridged Bhagavad-Gita was published in 1972. Srila Prabhupada ended His manifest physical presence on November 14, 1977. That is a full five years' where the original Bhagavad-Gita was practically read every day by Srila Prabhupada in lectures, room conversations, speeches, discussions etc. If He did intend to have His verse translations and purports amended, altered, corrected or reedited, why did He not give one verifiable indication for His leaders to do so? So far the Panditas have yet to produce one verifiable statement from His Divine Grace where He directly instructed His devotees to correct His original Bhagavad-Gita.

 

C)            Going beyond the Acarya, Srila Prabhupada?
 

The official GBC position on the so-called authorized changes is that the editors

 

a) had now been working with his books for the last fifteen years and "they were able to see their way through perplexities in the manuscript by consulting the same Sanskrit commentaries Srila Prabhupada consulted when writing Bhagavad-Gita As It Is." They alleged that they reached a better result in their new edition than Srila Prabhupada did with his first edition.

 

b) "the result is a work of even greater richness and authenticity", in places the translations though already correct. have been revised to come closer to the original Sanskrit and to Srila Prabhupada's original dictation.”

There are several points to be considered in this connection.

 
On whose authority did the GBC Panditas consult the original Sanskrit commentaries which Srila Prabhupada consulted when He wrote His Bhagavad-Gita As it is?, On their own or on Srila Prabhupada' s authority? If they claim that it is on their own authority, then their revision project has no authority from Srila Prabhupada  If they claim that it is on Srila Prabhupada's authority, then when did Srila Prabhupada ever authorize his students to go and consult the different bhasyas [commentaries] of the great Acaryas such as Sripada Ramanujacarya, Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada, to reedit His original work?  If He did, where is the specific verifiable evidence that His students should go beyond him and consult the commentaries of the previous Acaryas to attempt to present an edition of "greater richness and authencity"? Have the students become more than the master?

 
D)            Warning to students from the master, Srila Prabhupada.
 

"Personal realization does not mean that one should try to show the vanity of one's learning trying to surpass the previous acarya" (50)

 

We do have evidence that He directly said not to change His books

 
"We cannot water down the philosophy to make it more palatable. Our books must remain as they are." (51)

E)        Srila Prabhupada's original Gita had been acclaimed by scholars and professors all over the world?
 Srila Prabhupada's first 1972 edition had so much richness and authenticity that it had been widely acclaimed and accepted by scholars and professors from allover the world? It was sufficiently rich and authentic by them to deserve their worthy appreciations and reviews. Were the scholars and professors tricked into reviewing a commentary of Serial Prabhupada's Bhagavad-Gita and giving their appreciations?

If Srila Prabhupada felt that it was such a great necessity for His Bhagavad-Gita As It is translations and purports to be enriched, and that His students should go and consult the same Sanskrit commentaries that He consulted when He wrote His masterpiece, why did He not indicate this directly in His manifested presence? If the Panditas admit that '<the translations, although already correct," then why go beyond the translations and try to outdo the acarya? Why not leave the correct translations as they were? Srila Prabhupada left these translations as they were originally published in 1972?

"One cannot change the words of the authority. If you believe in Lord Jesus Christ [in our case Srila Prabhupada] you cannot change to your convenience."(52)

 F) Srila Prabhupada's original Gita made thousands of devotees of Krishna all over the world, why change the formula?
 Srila Prabhupada's potent preaching and His Bhagavad-Gita As it Is commentary made thousands and thousands of devotees of Lord Krishna. Srila Prabhupada attributed this to the fact that He presented the knowledge of the disciplic succession As It Is. He did not change the teachings or compromise the message. He used the words...As It Is" thousands of times to illustrate how to preach and how to present the teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

 sangamah kha/u sadhuna ubhayesam ca sammatah             
yat-sambhasana-samprasnah sarvesam vitanoti sam
 

“When there is a congregation of devotees, their discussions, questions and answers become conclusive to both the speaker and the audience. Thus such a meeting is beneficial for everyone's real happiness."

 
Purport

“Hearing discussions among the devotees is the only means to receive the powerful message of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For instance. Bhagavad-Gita. has been well known allover the world for a very long time, specially in the Western world, but because the subject matter was not discussed by devotees, there was no effect. Not a single person in the West became Krsna Conscious before the Krsna Consciousness movement was founded. When the same Bhagavad-Gita was presented as it is through the disciplic succession, there was immediate spiritual realization."(S3)

 

The potency of the original words of the Acarya is beyond any doubt. The results are there. No need to change.

 G) Even Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu would not allow one word to be changed.
The Sri Caitanya-Caritarnrta gives us the historical example that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not like even one word changed for the sacred Sastra. After He defeated the famous impersonalist scholar Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, the scholar recited a famous verse from the Srimad-Bhagavatam in which he changed one single word. Srila Prabhupada explains this incident as follows:

 

"When reading this verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.14.8), Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya changed the original reading from mukti-pade to bhakti-pade. Mukti means liberation and merging into the impersonal Brahman effulgence. Bhakti means rendering transcendental service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because of having developed pure devotional service, the Bhattacarya did not like the word mukti-pade, which refers to the impersonal Brahman feature of the Lord. However, he was not authorized to change one word in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu will explain. Although the Bhattacarya changed the word in his devotional ecstasy, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not approve of it."(S4)

 
From this example of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu' s chastisement of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, we can conclude that one cannot change any words from the original texts or the sacred purports and commentaries of the Acarya.

H) The traditional standard of the great parampara-Acaryas: no change.
 The single most compelling argument expressed by many senior Vaishnava devotees and various followers of Srila Prabhupada is that no bona fide previous acarya has ever changed even one word from their Guru’s writings. The traditional Vaishnava-Sampradayas and their illustrious acaryas have a voluminous body of Vaisbnava literatures and commentaries of the great personalities describing the glory and position of the Supreme Lord. Sri Krsna and the subservient position of the living entities. It is important to note that no acarya has ever dared to change even one word from their guru's writings. This is unthinkable for the bona fide followers of Vaishnava religion. This is considered disrespectful and offensive. Let us examine various statements of Srila Prabhupada in this connection.

 Bhagavad-Gita cannot be changed by the whims of rascals.
“So Bhagavad-Gita Gita, the lessons of Bhagavad-Gita, cannot be changed by the whims of rascals this is not possible.”(55)

 

Sastra does not change.
 
“There is no change. Therefore sastra means it is for all the time, not that sastra was meant in the past for something else, and now something else. That is not the fact. That is, means, sastra that it does not change." (56)

 
Bhagavad-Gita lecture by Srila Prabhuoad [16-.11.12) February 7, 1975 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA.

 No question of changing the words of God.
“So religion you cannot manufacture religion. Religion means the words of God. And if yearly or quarterly you change the words that is not religion. That is not religion. That is mental concoction. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. No change. Others, they are interpreting in their own way. That is not Bhagavad-Gita. That is something else...In the words of God, there is no question of changing. You cannot change. As soon as you change immediately it is material. It has nothing to do with spiritual world...That is nowadays happening... which edition of Christianity? There are so many. Therefore it is, the purport of Christianity is lost. That is lost"(57)

 No change since time immemorial.
 Dr. Patel: "And now we are to define who is a rascal."

Srila Prabhupada: "No, rascal is meant. who has no authority. They are changing every day. They are changing. We don't change. These rascals are changing. We... Over five thousand years ago Sukadeva Goswarni said that, As I have heard it I am explaining.' That means time immemorial, the thing is, same thing is coming. There is no change, not that after a few days, , No, no. It was wrong. This is now right. ‘Again somebody comes."

Dr. Patel: "They are explaining the truth in their own way. That is the change of theory. But the truth is always the same."

Srila Prabhupada: "That is the truth ofrascaldom, as soon as you change your position"(58)

 No change in the parampara system.
 
"I have given you the process of disciplic succession: from Krsna, Brahma, from Brahma, Narada, from Narada, Vyasa; from Vyasa, Madhva; from Madhva, Madhavendra Puri; Isvara Puri; from Isvara Puri; Lord Caitanya. Sa evam parampara. So in the parampara system, in that disciplic succession, you will find no change. The original word is there. That is the thing. They are not foolish to manufacture something new. What new? People are after something new manufactured by this tiny brain. What new can you manufacture? That is all nonsense. If you want real thing, then you have to take the old, the oldest. You cannot change anything."(59)

 'Sastra should be changed,' that is nonsense.
 “And what Krsna said five thousand years ago, the same thing Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, same thing. There was no change. as there was no change between the statement of Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and Narottama dasa. Thakura. Sadhu sastra. As sastra there is no change. Not that 'modernize, the sastra should be changed.' No, that is nonsense. That is not Sastra. Sastra cannot be changed. Circumstantially, it will be changed, seasonal changes, no. That is not sastra, sastra means perpetual." (60)

 God's words cannot be changed.
 

“Just see the sastra cannot be changed. God's words cannot be changed. Then what will be the difference between God and ourself? He is always perfect. He is always perfect. What he said five thousand years ago, that is also correct up to date. That is sastra. Not that, .So many years have passed and it has become old. Now let us reform it and put it in a new way.' No. You can put the same thing in a new way, but you cannot change the principle. sadhu sastra guru vakya. tinete kariya aikya. Sastra is never changed. And the sadhu. Sadhu means one who follows the sastras. He is sadhu. He also does not change. sadhu sastra guru vakya tinete kariya aikya. Yah sastravidhim utsrjya vartate kama karatah. na siddhim avapnoti. "(61)

 

Note: It is noteworthy to mention that just as Prabhupada criticizes the concept of reforming the sastra, the GBC invented the idea of reforming the 'acarya.' an unprecedented concoction never described by Srila Prabhupada.

It is not our business to amend the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
 
“It is not our business to amend the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or make additions and alterations. as it has now become a custom for many So-called scholars and Swamis who comment on the words of Bhagavad-Gita." (62)

No change to your convenience.
 
"One cannot change the words of the authority. If you believe in Lord Jesus Christ [or in Srila Prabhupada), you cannot make any change to your convenience." (63)

And what is the result of additions and alterations.
 
"If you concoct, 'I am more intelligent than my Guru,' 'I can make additions and alterations,' then you are finished."(64)
 The result ofalterations and additions: finished.
 "Therefore we present Bhagavad-Gita As it is, no addition, no alteration. The same thing, AS SOON AS THERE IS ADDITION, ALTERATION, IT IS GONE, FINISHED." (65)

 It is worthy to note that no previous bona fide acaryas and bona fide disciples in any Vaishnava disciplic succession have ever changed one word from their guru's writings and purports. There is no record anywhere of a bona fide guru even attempting to change one word from his guru. what to speak of the hundreds of unauthorized changes which the GBC bas authorized in the original Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. As such the changes in the Bhagavad-Gita were never authorized by His Divine Grace. The Panditas and apologists of the GBCseIf-appointed acarya succession must first explain, from direct verifiable statements of His Divine Grace, where they have derived the authority to change Srila Prabhupada' s original Bhagavad-Gita, before they can be eligible to be bona fide participants in any debate or disputation.

 6) SUPPRESSION OF THE LETTERS OF THE ACARYA!
 First. let us examine the potential results of suppressing the guru, and His letters, in this case Srila Prabhupada.

Result of suppressing guru?
Srila Prabhupada: "sarvam etad rtam manye yanmam vadasi kesava That is our position. You know this verse?"

Patita Pavana: "This verse I don't know. I don't know this verse. Sarva...?"

Srila Prabhupada: "Find out. sarvam etad rtam manye yad vadasi kesava. Find out Bhagavad-Gita."

Giriraja: "Whatever you say I accept in toto."

Srila Prabhupada: "That's all."

Patita Pavana: "Oh, that's from Arjuna speaking."

Srila Prabhupada: "This is our position. That is very easy for us. We haven't got to manufacture. To manufacture idea is troublesome. Why should I take trouble? And as soon as you want to manufacture something to my..., that is dangerous. guru mukha padma-vakya. cittete kariya aikya. ora na kariha mane asa. This is... You are singing every day,  What our guru has said, that is our life and soul. We do not want... ora na karihe mane asa. And your guru's article, you have given. Do you think is allright? We are reading everyday, yasya prasadad bhagavat prasadah. And as soon as this poison will come 'Suppress Guru and I become Brahman' [big] everything finished. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Matha finished, that...violated the orders of Guru Maharaja."... So it is easy for us. What Krsna says and Vyasadeva says, that's all. We haven't got to manufacture. And as soon as you manufacture, fall down. Evam parampara praptam imam rajarsayah... This manufacturing idea is very, very dangerous in spiritual life. Whatever little success is there for me, I did not manufacture any idea."
Tamala Krsna: "Neither you take any credit."
Srila Prabhupada: "No why shall I take?" tandera carone sevi bhakta sane vasa janame janame haya ei abhilasa. Our mission is to serve the bhakta-visesa and live with devotees. NOT THAT YOU TAKE THE PLACE OF THE GURU. That is nonsense, very dangerous. Then everything will be spoiled, as soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru gurusu nara matih. That is the material disease." (66)
 The history of how the publication of 
Srila Prabhupada’s letters was suppressed.
 Following the departure of Srila Prabhupada for Goloka Vrindavana on the 14th of November of 1977, a widespread campaign was launched throughout the whole Krsna Consciousness society to obtain Srila Prabhupada's original letters to his various disciples and followers. The stated purpose of this project was to

preserve the original letters and their very important and pertinent instructions for posterity. These letters were very important documents to establish the growth of the movement and Srila Prabhupada' s numerous personal instructions and directives for the practical management of His society and His specific guidelines of how He wanted His society to evolve and preserve His pure and original teachings. These letters were and are very important. During the years of 1978-1983, thousands of these priceless letters were obtained, accumulated and kept in the original Bhaktivedanta Archives located in Los Angeles in those days.

 The crucial information contained in those letters were the subject of considerable discussion and debate among members of the GBC. Thus three opinions soon surfaced among members of the GBC:

 
1)     Various individuals felt they should be published in their entirety with no editing for the sake of the devotee conununity.

 

2)     The majority of the GBC objected, feeling that they contained very sensitive and often confidential information which should not be made public, especially to the masses of devotees.

 

3)       Others felt that they should be published, even in an edited form, if need be

It should be noted that the original five volume set of Srila Prabhupada' s letters was not published by the GBC and the BBT, but by a group of other devotees, who published it in Mexico. And this was printed in one limited edition of 500 sets. The GBC never reprinted this original five set volume in its original form.

A large number of the temple presidents within ISKCON preferred the approach of publishing them. even in an edited format. However, the GBC never published Srila Prabhupada's letters. They even refused to publish them, Their position was described by RH. Jayadvaita Swami in his well publicized paper of March 5, 1987to the whole GBC body,

 Item # 25: "The GBC in concert with the BBT trustees and against the expressed will of the ISKCON temple presidents, deliberately suppressed publication of Srila Prabhupada's letters, even in edited form." (67)

So the proponents of a debate are now confronted with several other problems. If they wish to debate or even discuss, they now must explain and inform the devotee community:

 1) Who are those GBCs and BBT trustees who "deliberately suppressed" the publication of Srila  Prabhupada's letters? This is very important so that we have a very clear idea of who tried to suppress Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions in those letters. If we are to debate some philosophical contentions, we have to first establish who will represent a specific viewpoint. As such, individuals who may have been responsible for "deliberately suppressing" extremely crucial and most important information from the devotees should not be allowed to subsequently resurface as so-called alleged representatives of Srila Prabhupada, and say that now they wish to debate, and claim that they are followers and representatives of the Acarya, Srila Prabhupada. As such for the benefit of the worldwide devotee community those "deliberate suppressers” of Srila Prabhupada's letters should be clearly identified, and the same individuals must first of all publicly state:

 a) Why they suppressed these letters of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada?

 b) What are the contents of these letters that needed suppressing, and what was unfit for the tender ears of the devotees to hear? Further, whoever is put forward to defend the GBC position must be required to answer publicly the following questions and answer specifically from Srila Prabhupada's books and teachings. "

 c) Which previous bona fide Vaishnava-Acarya has ever suppressed the letters and/or instructions of His Guru?

 d) What is the position of a Vaishnava-Acarya who suppresses the letters and/or instructions of His guru?

 2) Any of the proposed defenders and advocates of the GBC philosophy should not use any of the Prabhupada letters and statements from these letters to defend their position. Since they worked so hard to "deliberately suppress" the publication of these letters, why should they now try to use the letters as evidence to present their so-called position?

 3) If these letters of Srila Prabhupada were fit to merit "deliberate suppression" in the early 1980's "by the GBC in concert with the BBT trustees," then why should the apologists for the same GBC and BBT trustees be allowed to use the evidence which they worked overtime to suppress? One year the letters are suppressed and a few years later they are resurrected to present their case! Thus the sacred sanctity of the Acarya's letters has been rejected and desecrated by the proponents of the GBC official party line. This constitutes another example of rejection of sastric and acarya authority.

 7) SUPPRESSING THE IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA? 1977-1990.
 One of the most important body of evidence to ascertain Srila Prabhupada' s desires and intentions are the various room conversations and morning walks which were recorded during the manifested presence of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. Just as the publication of the letters of Srila Prabhupada and the crucial and important instructions they contained were "deliberately suppressed" by the GBC, similarly the GBC also did not publish the original conversations with Prabhupada for 13 years until after the departure of Srila Prabhupada. Many devotees still suspect that many conversations with Srila Prabhupada in the last few months of 1977 are still missing.  These important conversations especially the ones during the last eight months of Srila Prabhupada’s manifest presence were extremely crucial to the implementation of Srila Prabhupada's desires for the immediate aftermath of His departure. Some devotees say that the suppression of these conversations for many years was an integral part of the false "acarya/guru appointment" propaganda. Since no one but a handful of GBC's had access to the original conversations with His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada. no devotees could actually verify Srila Prabhupada's actual statements. As such it was easy for the GBC through propaganda to pass on whatever slanted versions' of the truth they wanted to publicize. Whatever segments of conversations did not fit the GBC propaganda agenda were conveniently deleted or omitted. Of course one of the major casualties of this slanted propaganda is that truth gets lost. And many devotees still suspect that the truth is still lost.

 Result of false propaganda
Srila Prabhupada: "Anything imperfect will fail. That is my proposition."
Devotee: "His propaganda is that it is perfect because it has made the Chinese people..."
Srila Prabhupada: "Propaganda. by propaganda. you can do anything. That is a different thing. But fact is fact. If your theory is not perfect. you make however propaganda. it will fail... without having philosophy, this is going on in the animal kingdom. So what is the use of your philosophy? By philosophy, you give something which will not create any conflict.  But by conflict. by crushing, by subduing, if you want to establish your peace, then what is the value of this peace?" (68)

 Here Prabhupada decries the notion of subduing, crushing to establish so-called peace. After the departure of His Divine Grace in 1977, the GBC picked and chose whichever so-called evidence suited their "appointed guru” propaganda agenda. Any conversation with His Divine Grace which did not suit their "appointed guru" concoction was suppressed for almost 13 years after Srila Prabhupada's departure.  This pick and choose style of evidence manipulation was a major factor in the apparent confusion which prevailed for several years after the departure of His Divine Grace in November of 1977.

 These conversations with His Divine Grace were very important to ascertaining the exact desire of Srila Prabhupada, especially with regards to initiations in His society for the aftermath of His physical departure. Thus the proponents of a debate should first publicly answer why they have chosen to suppress these crucial and important conversations for more than 13 years after the departure of our Sampradaya-Acarya, Srila Prabhupada.

 Unless they can satisfactorily answer this above question, they have no right to use any of Srila Prabhupada's conversations in support of their contentions. And why were Srila Prabhupada’s conversations recorded in the first place?

 So all the devotees in the different branches can hear.
 Reporter: "I think the first question is kind of basic, is why everything always taped at all the..."
Srila Prabhupada: "Because we have got so many branches, they want to hear me, my singing, my speech, therefore they record it and send it to different branches." (69)

 So everyone in the world can listen.
Doctor: "Why do you tape record?"

Hari-Sauri: "Everything Prabhupada speaks we tape record and then everyone in the world can listen." (70)

And what is the real purpose of taping Srila Prabhupada's conversations and speeches.
Guest: ” I don't want to talk with the tape recorder. I come to honor my Swamiji and my elder brother."
Srila Prabhupada: "That's all right."
Tamala Krsna: "We tape everything Prabhupada says. Everything he says, we tape, whether you're here or not."
Guest: "No I don't want to talk on the machine."
Tamala Krsna: "We're not taping for any other purpose, but our Guru Maharaja's words are very sacred to us. So we tape all the time, whether you're here or not here."
Srila Prabhupada: "No he has no objection to the tape."(71)

Needless to say the crucial conversations which took place in the last few months of Srila Prabhupada’s presence in 1977 were never sent to all the branches for the members to hear. The GBC released what they wanted the devotees to hear, not the complete version. Was there something that our GBC leaders did not want us to hear? The pontiffs and panditas of the GBC should first present a valid public explanation of why these crucial conversations were suppressed, otherwise they should not use any of those conversations to try to establish their contentions.

 Arddha-kukkuti-nyaya. The mayavadi technique.

 Let us hear from the conclusion of the Acarya, Srila Prabhupada, about His thoughts on this 'accept and reject' technique.

 " When Krsna says that 'anyone who sees me in everyone.' 'Oh that is very palatable.' And when Krsna says' You give up everything you, you surrender... Oh that is not palatable.' And this is ardha-kukkuti-nyaya. I accept things which are very favorable to my understanding, and other things I reject. This is called arddha-kukkutinyaya. So people accept sastras in that way, the mayavadis."(72)

 CONCLUSION:

 I.   No devotee is authorized to change the original [first printed editions] of Srila Prabhupada's books especially Srila Prabhupada’s 1972 Bhagavad-Gita As It Is edition.

 2.    Any devotee who has participated or acquiesced in the deliberate suppression of the publication of Srila Prabhupada's letters should not be allowed to debate or represent the GBC viewpoint in any discussions.

 3.   Any GBC or Guru who has been involved in the "sastras are declared inconclusive in themselves" concoction should also not be allowed to represent the GBC viewpoint unless they satisfactorily answer all relevant questions raised in this connection.

 
References and notes. Section 2.

Citations and references used under authority of Title 17U.S.C. Section 107, Fair Use Exception.
 I) [His Divine Grace] A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami [Prabhupada]. Letter to Devananda dasa. September 26, 1968
[Letters from Srila Prabhupada. Vol I. Mexico City, Mexico. The Vaishnava Institute, 1987]
(2) HDGACBSP. Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta Madhya-Lila 20.353 [Los Angeles, CA, USA Bhaktivedanta Book Trust [BBT] 1975]
(3) ibid Madhya-Lila 20.352
(4) Srila Prabhupada lecture May II, 1969 Columbus, Ohio, USA [Los Angeles, CA, USA. Prabhupada Folio. 1991]
(5) ibid. March 13, 1975. Tehran, Iran.
(6) HDGACBSP, Room Conversation with Srila Prabhupada August 5, 1976. Paris, France. [Los Angeles, CA, USA. Prabhupada Folio 1991]
(7) as in item 4, December I, 1996 New York, NY, USA.
(8) as in item #1.
(9) as in item # 4, February 26, 1973, Jakarta, Indonesia.
(10) as in item #4, June 8, 1976, Los Angeles. CA. USA.
(11) as in item #4, February 15, 1977, Mayapura. India.
(12) as in item #4, July 26, 1976, London, England.
(13) as in item # 4, August 29, 1975 Vrindavana, India.
(14) as in item # 1 SPL to Brahmananda Maharaja November 3, 1972.
(15) as in item # 4 August 7, 1975 Toronto, Canada.
(16) as in item # I SPL to Bahurupa dasa November 22, 1974.
(17) as in item # 3 March I, 1975 Atlanta, GA. USA.
(18) HDGACBSP. Sri Isopanisad. Mantra 12. Purport p.64. 2nd paragraph. [ISKCON PRESS, Boston, MS USA 1969]
(19) as in item # 4, December 2, 1973 Los Angeles, CA. USA.
(20) as in item # 2. Adi-Lila 1.46 purport
(21) as in item # 6 June 22. 1977 Vrindavana, India.
(22) ibid,
(23) as in item # 6 May 9, 1975 Perth, Australia.
(24) Unrecorded statement by Sri1aPrabhupada to a senior disciple. June 23, 1977 Vrindavana, India.
(25) as in item # 4 July 4, 1974, Honolulu, HI, USA
(26) as in item # I SPL to Rupanuga Maharaja, March 28, 1974.
(27) as in item # I SPL to Visvakarma dasa, November 9, 1975.
(28) as in item # 6 May 17, 1977 Vrindavana, India.
(29) as in item # 6 July 14, 1977 Vrindavana, India.
(30) as in item # 6 October 6, 1977 Vrindavana, India.
(31) GBC representative Late February 1979, Vrindavana, India.
(32) HDGACBSP Bhagavad-Gita As It Is 4.40. [New York, NY USA The Mac Millan Company 1972.]
(33) as in item # 4 December 13, 1970 Indore, India.
(34) as in item # 2 Adi-Lila 7.140
(35) as in item # 6 July 4, 1974 Honolulu, HI, USA.
(36) ibid.
(37) as in item # 32 4.42
(38) HDGACBSP. Easy Journey to Other Planets, page 24. [New Delhi, India. The League of Devotees, 1960]
(39) HDGACBSP Nectar of Devotion, Ch 14, p.117, "Devotional Qualifications" [Boston, MS,USA ISKCON Press, 1970].
(40) as in item # 4 February 11, 1975 Mexico City, Mexico.
(41) as in item # 4 July 4, 1974 Honolulu, HI, USA.
(42) as in item # 6 February 3, 1975 Honolulu, Ill, USA.
(43) Prof. E.Burke Rochford, Jr. Hare Krishna in America, Ch 9. Pp.234-235. [New Brunswick, NJ, USA. Rutgers University Press, 1985]
(44) Governing Body Commission, International Society for Krsna Consciousness. GBC report, Chapter 2, "Illogical Misleading philosophy", p.2. [Dallas, TX. USA, GBC of ISKCON, August 17, 1980)
(45) as in item ##2. Madhya-Lila 17. 186 and 25.57
(46) as in item ##6 April 13, 1977, Bombay, India.
(47) as in item ##1. SPL to Lilavati devi dasi March 31, 1977.
(48) as in item ##4 April 27, 1974 Hyderabad, India.
(49) H.H. Jayadvaita Swami and BBT editors. Bhagavad-Gita As It is, Revised Edition. p. 866 [Northampton, MS, USA, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust reg, 1983,]
(50) [HOG) A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami [prabhupada) Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.4.1. Purport [New Delhi, India, The League of Devotees, 1962).
(51) as in item # 47.
(52) as in item ##4 May 8, 1973 Los Angeles, CA. USA.
(53) HDGACBSP Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.22.19 [Los Angeles, CA. USA, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust 1974)
(54) as in item # 2 Madhya-Lila 6.261.
(55) as in item # 4 January 9, 1975, Bombay, India.
(56) as in item # 6 February 7, 1975 Honolulu, HI, USA.
(57) as in item # 6 August 5. 1976 Paris. France.
(58) as in item # 4 November 17, 1975 Bombay, India.
(59) as in item # 4 December 1, 1966 New York. NY, USA
(60) as in item # 4 November 30, 1976 Vrindavana, India.
(61) as in item # 4 November 30. 1976 Vrindavana, India.
(62) as in item # 53 .UO.17
(63) as in item # 4 May, 8 1973
(64) as in item # 4 July 12, 1975. Philadelphia. PA. USA
(65) as in item # 4 July 2, 1974, Melbourne. Australia.
(66) as in item # 4 April 20, 1977 Bombay. India.
(67) H.H. Jayadvaita Swami. Several Grievances against the members of the GBC,
March 5, 1987]
(68) as in item # 6 Srila Prabhupada Philosophy, Excerpts, 123-3.
(69) as in item # 6 February 1, 1968 Los Angeles, CA, USA.
(70) as in item # 6 September 29, 1976 Vrindavana, India.
(71) as in item # 6 May 24, 1977 Vrindavana, India.
(72) as in item # 4 December 1970 Indore, India.
Item # 25 [Mayapura. India.

Part three.
"PURITY IS THE FORCE"
Importance of purity.
Srila Prabhupada has numerous times stressed the importance of purity for His movement. His fourfold practical mantra of "Purity is the force, Books [His original Books) are the basis, Utility is the principle and Preaching is the essence" was the basic foundation of His vision for His pure Vaishnava movement. In order to spread the pure and original teachings of Srila Prabhupada, the purity of its members and followers is an absolute necessity.
It is therefore extremely important for any individuals who might wish. to propose or suggest any kind of debate involving any ISKCON GBC or their "appointed gurus or voted in gurus"or any of their apologists to defend their current theology on Guru-Tattva to have a prior background check to insure the purity of their characters as well as the integrity of their former and current Acarya board members. It is important to refresh our minds therefore regarding some statements of His Divine Grace on the importance of purity and the secret of success for His movement.
Keep it pure.
" So if we keep our movement pure, then you are as strong as Krsna. And as soon as you deviate from it, immediately, ordinary. This is the secret. Now it is up to us to keep it pure"(l)
"Regarding your question about dancing show, whatever it may be, it may not deviate from the real Krsna conscious program. We are Hari Kirtana men, that's all. We can attract people by some gorgeous show, but inside there must be strict, purity and seriousness, otherwise we shall be attracted by the gorgeous show only... Our message is very grave, and because it is the Absolute truth, it will work without any artificial presentation."(2)
Our only asset is purity.
"By chanting and giving prasadam you will get so many devotees. Yes, as you say the purity is attractive to people. Continue it. Our only asset is purity. pavitram poramam bhavam. You cannot reach Krsna without being pure, because He is the supreme pure."(3)
" So I request all of you to follow strictly the regulative principles, especially the chanting on the beads. GBC means to be a practical example to all residents of temple and devotees, if all of us follow this principle of purity, our spiritual position will remain sound, and maya will not touch us. mayam etam toranti Ie. A fully surrendered soul always remains untouched by the hand of maya. Otherwise it is not possible." (4)
There have been various discussions recently in the electronic media and among numerous devotees about whether the disciplic succession and any of its bona fide Acaryas has ever been contaminated. Various lines of argumentations have been forwarded to attempt to defend the official GBC position that bona fide gurus and acaryas can fall down and do fall down, and that this is allegedly very common in the bona fide Gaudiya Sampradaya. Various scriptural citations have been presented in a frentic attempt to prove this theory. Many, if not most devotees, are somewhat skeptical, if not astonished at the idea that individuals acting or who have acted as acaryas and Vaishnava gurus could manifest symptoms of homosexuality, pedophilia, child molestation, sexual deviations, even with their own initiates, embezzlement etc, and various other blatant deviations.
The major problem with this acarya fall down theory is that it is diametrically opposed to one of the fundamental tenets of Srila Prabhupada's teachings. One of such basic teaching is that the bona fide Vaisnava acarya never deviates. This is clearly articulated by His Divine Grace that the bona fide spiritual master, especially a diksa guru or an initiating spiritual master is never deviated.
"The spiritual master is never deviated from the path ofthe authorities."(5)
" The spiritual master must never be carried away by an accumulation of wealth or a large number of followers.
A bona fide spiritual master will never become like that. But sometimes, if a spiritual master is not properly authorized and only on his own initiative becomes a spiritual master, he may be carried away by an accumulation of wealth and large number of disciples. His is not a very high grade of devotional service."(6)
"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord, as they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of Bhagavad-Gita have come down to the earthly kingdom."(7)
In a famous newspaper interview with a reporter from the London Times, Srila Prabhupada explains about the erroneous concept of 'bad gurus. '
Reporter: " But the bad gurus."
Srila Prabhupada: "But what is a 'bad' guru?"
Reporter: " A bad guru just wants'some money or some fame."
Srila Prabhupada: "Well, if he is bad how can he become a guru?  How can iron become gold? Actually a guru cannot be bad. For if someone is bad, he cannot be a guru. You cannot say 'bad guru.' That is a contradiction.  What you have to do is simply try to understand what is genuine guru... The definition of a genuine guru is that he is simply talking about God. That's all. If he is talking about some other nonsense, then he is not a guru. A Guru cannot be bad. There is no question of bad guru, any more than a red guru or a white guru. Guru means genuine guru. All we have to know is that the genuine guru is simply talking about God and trying to get people to become God's devotees. If he does this then he is genuine."(8)
Further, the historical records of the lives of the bona fide Acaryas in the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Sampradaya clearly show us that the great mukta-purusa [fully liberated souls] and Maha-Bhagavata-Vaishnava Acaryas [first class pure devotee uttama-adhikari spiritual masters] never come down to the level of ordinary materialistic men and indulge in all sorts of depraved and immoral behaviors.
This is confirmed by the illustrious Gaudiya-Vedanta-Acarya Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, in his Prameya- Ratnavali. Introduction. text 4
b h av ati -vi c in tya- vi dusa-n i ravakara
ekantitvam sidhyati yayodayati
guru-parampara nityam
yena hari tosam
" It must be considered that the eternal disciplic succession is etemally faultless [vidusa] and free from any impurity [niravakara]. Byconstantly remembering such faultless disciplic succession one achieves single minded loving devotion to the Supreme Lord Hari, and thus please Lord Hari." (9)
To think that the empowered bona fide Acarya [s] can behave and/or fall down like an ordinary human is strictly forbidden in the sacred sastras. And to similarly think that the bona fide Acarya is an ordinary human is a great aparadha.
Srila Prabhupada: "It is aparadha. Gurum narDmatih. This is forbidden. Gurum narDmatih. Arcye si/adhir...
Just like everyone knows... The atheist class will say. 'Oh, here is a stone statue, and these rascals are worshipping Krsna'."
Dr. Patel: "That is wrong."
Srila Prabhupada: "Similarly Guru. Although he is working, moving just like ordinary human being, one should not consider that he is ordinary human being. Gurusu nara-matih... Guru should not be considered in that way. If he is actually guru."(lO)
Why is the bona fide guru not to be considered an ordinary human being?
One is forbidden to accept the guru, or spiritual master, as an ordinary human being, (gurusu-nara-matih). When Ramananda Raya spoke to Pradyurnna Misra. Pradyurnna Misra could understand that Ramananda Raya was not an ordinary human being. A Spiritually advanced person who acts with authority. as the Spiritual master speaks as the Supreme Personality  of Godhead dictates from within. It is not that he is personally speaking. When a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been spoken by by the Supreme
Personality of Godhead in the parampara system." (11)
The exalted position of the empowered acaryas.
Prahlada Maharaja continued: "After accepting the instructions of Devarsi Narada, my mother stayed in his care, without fear from any direction. as long as my father, the King of the Daityas, had not become free from his severe austerities."02)
rsim paryacarat tafra bhaktya paramaya sati
antavanti sva-garbhasya ksemayeccha-prasutaye
" My mother, being pregnant. desired the safety of her embryo and desired to give birth after her husband's arrival. Thus she stayed at Narada Muni's asrarna, where she rendered service unto Narada Muni with great devotion."
Purport
" Nonetheless although one is strictly prohibited from staying with a woman in a secluded place, Narada Muni gave shelter to Prahlada Maharaja's young mother, who rendered service to him with great devotion and faith. Does this mean that Narada Muni transgressed the Vedic injunctions? Certainly he did not. Such injunctions are meant for mundane creatures. but Narada Muni is transcendental to mundane categories. Narada Muni is a great saint and is transcendentally situated... Therefore although he was a young man he could give shelter to a young woman
and accepted her service... Anyone can take shelter of a pure Vaishnava, without fear. Therefore in the previous verse it has been distinctly said. devarser antike sakuto-bhaya. Kayadhu the mother ofPrahlada Maharaja stayed under the protection ofNarada Muni without fear from any direction. Similarly Narada Muni in his transcendental position.. stayed with the young woman without fear of deviation. Narada Muni. Haridas Thakura and similar acaryas especially empowered to broadcast the glories of the Lord cannot be brought down to the material platform.
Therefore one is strictly forbidden to think that the acarya is an ordinary human being. (gurusu nara-matih),03)
Thus in the history of the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Parampara. there is no record of any depravity or deviation on the part of any bona fide Vaisnava acarya. as confirmed by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana and Srila Prabhupada.
It should be further noted that Srila Prabhupada says in the Madhya-Lila of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta that "there is no possibility that a first class devotee will fall down event though he may mix with non-devotees to preach."
DANGER OF CHANGING THE TEACHINGS OF THE SAMPRADAYA-ACARYA, SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Srila Prabhupada was extremely careful to balance the needs of practical preaching adjustments and maintaining the pure standards he had established. In a letter to His students, Srila Prabhupada emphasized the importance of purity.
"We are not concerned with any other movement save and except Krishna Consciousness in its pure form. In India it is said that a little bit of a pure thing is much better than huges volumes of impure adulterated things. So please try to follow this poiicy."(14)
Purpose of the GBC formation
" I have formed the GBC for that purpose. to keep the devotional standards at the highest level."(15)
Potential danger of not keeping the pure standards.
"One thing, if we are not careful to always stick to the point of regulative principles and purest standards of high
living, then everything will spoil very quickly and the whole show will become a farce."(16)
And what happens if you do not keep it pure.
" Similarly... our movement. it may appear just like other movement. but because the movement is giving Krsna,
that means it is as good as Krsna... So long as it adheres to the principles... otherwise it is ordinary movement
This same man he is guru, so long he gives the real knowlegde of Krsna. And the same man. He is ordinary man,
as soon as he cannot give...So if we keep our movement pure, then you are a strong as Krsna. And as soon as you
deviate from it. immediately ordinary. This is the secret. Now it is up to us to keep it pure. Then no enemy can
kill us. Nobody can kill you. That purity is wanted. then it will... So what is the difficulty. Follow the rules and
regulations, worship the deity, and chant the Hare Krishna mantra. as you have [been] given, then you will remain
as strong as Krsna. And if we manufacture some idea also, that is no good. Krsna cannot be manufactured. Krsna
is Krsna. You cannot manufacture another form competitor ofKrsna. That is no good... "(l7)
Danger of factions.
Srila Prabhupada continues and warns about the great danger of factions.
"Just like the, your one competitor came, to even in the lifetime ofKrsna, Paundraka."
Pusta Krsna: "Yes."
Srila Prabhupada: "With artificial four hands. You know that?"(laughs) This movement is actually the real movement
to raise the human society. And if we create factions, then the movement will be less strong and will not act
very (indistinct) [effectively?)"(18)
Danger of illicit sexual bebavion.
Srila Prabhupada has very clearly stated throughout His books about the danger of illicit sexual activities and
especially homosexuality. The various statements by His Divine Grace in this regard serve as a reminder that in
order to act as a bona fide Vaishnava devotee one cannot indulge in illicit sexual activities, what to speak of
indulgence in homosexuality under the guise of Guru and Acarya.
This is relevant in connection with any proposed debate, since it has already been estabiished. that several of the
current GBC acaryas voted and supported the reinstatement of a known "homosexual guru" in March of 1986 in
Mayapura. India. And further this may help us to determine if any of the current Acaryas were voted in or certified
by the same individuals who vehemently supported the same "homosexual guru" in the middle 1980's.
It is significant to note in this connection that the GBC has published a report in 1989and a modified one in again
in 1995, which now claims to be the final siddhanta with regards to Srila Prabhupada's desire for the continuation
of the disciplic succession. Of course no valid explanation is given why their previous siddhantas are now considered
obsolete. Were they not final at some point? Astoninshingly, the same report alleges that bona fide gurus
and acaryas in the pararnpara may sometimes become demons or become influenced by demoniac qualities!
The 1989 GBC report says:
[Bold is the author's]
"The GBC resolutions provide that one should abandon or reject a spiritual master who has the following symptoms;
1. His attachment to sense gratification is serious. prolonged or hopeless.
2. Be takes on demoniac Qualities and becomes inimical to ISKCON. (19)
In the booklet "GURUS AND INITIATIONS IN ISKCON" published in 1995, in the section 1.5.4. "Sanctioning
of Gurus by the GBC," the GBC says:
" The GBC body may apply any of the following sanctions against a guru for misconduct.
1.5.4.1. Warning (or censure)
"If a Guru is found deviating from or neglecting spiritual practices... the guru should be warned (or censured
confidentially)."
1.5.4.2. Probation.
If the warnings are not heeded, or if the deviation or neglect of spiritual practices are of a more serious nature [!j,
or if the transgression of guru codes of behavior are serious and habitual, the guru may be put under probation with
specific conditions which regulate his guru functions (including temporary withdrawal of authorization to initiate
new disciples.) In addition, he may be given general recommendations or specific activities to perform as part of
a program for his rectification and eventual reinstatement.
1.5.4.3 Suspension
If a guru blatantly ignores the terms of probation or repeatedly breaks one or more of the regulative principle, or
acts in manner which seriously and harmfully disregards existing ISKCON or GBC policies, or leaves his asrarna
or sannyasa without authorization, or leaves the association of devotees and the ISKCON movement or completely
deviate from the standard sadhana. he may be suspended [!j. If a guru is suspended he cannot give initiation or
maintain an absolute siksa position in relation to his disciples, not be introduced as spiritual master, nor perform
his guru functions such a receiving guru-puja or the acceptance of daksina.
Note: It may be noticed here that the function of preaching Krsna Consciousness as it is is conspicious by its
absence in the above definition of the functions of a guru. Notice the emphasis on puja and daksina.
1.5.4.4. Removal.
If a guru becomes openly inimical to Srila Prabhupada or ISKCON; or otherwise acts demonically[!j; or becomes
an impersonalist (mayavadi)... he shall be removed from his position as diksa or siksa-guru. (20)
However, Srila Prabhupada opines differently than the GBC.
" The spiritual master is never deviated from the path of authorities." (21)
Let us carefully analyze Srila Prabhupada' statements about one of such demoniac behaviors since it directly pertains
to the issue at hand.
Origin of homosexual tendency.
'it!
pahi mam paramatmams te
presanenasrjam prajah
ta ima yabhitum papa
upakramanti mam prabho
Translation
Lord Brahrna, approaching the Lord addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons.
who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.
Purport
It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the
demons by Brahrna. In other words, the homo~xual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for
any sane male in the ordinary course of life. (22)
But why write about all this?
It is sometimes argued that some of these incidents took place quite a few years ago and why should this be brought
up again and again. especially in written format. Some sentimental devotees say that this should not be done.
However, Srila Prabhupada opines differently.
Srila Prabhupada: "These rascals should understand that they have created problem on account of their ahimalistic,
less than animalistic civilization. There is no limit of sense gratification. The sense gratification, homosex
they are supporting. Just see. Just see. At least, in animal society there is no homosex. They have created
homosex. and that is being passed by the Driest the religious heads. You know that?"
Devotee: "Yes, I have heard."
Srila Prabhupada: "Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them." It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in capers and evervthing, all ooenlv. Challenge strongly. First of all realize, then challenge."(23)
Degradation of human society.
Devotee: "Even in Los Angeles they have a group of homosexuals who used to get harassed by people all the time.
So now they have become a military group, and they carry weapons. And if anybody harasses them. they shoot them. They're called militant homosexuals."
Devotee: "In one high school here they asked the question whether we accept homosexuality, and I said, 'Of course not. This is only a perversion.' And they said, , This is nature's way to stop overpopulation,' because there won't be any children. So much foolish."
Srila Prabhupada: "How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children they are discussing." (24)
Note: It should be mentioned that in our movement many of Srila Prabhupada's Vaikuntha children unfortunately became victims of such 'degraded' persons.
Dogs and bogs are not even bomosex?
Bahulasva: "In California, they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal."
Srila Prabhupada: "They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don't think."
Bahulasva: "Yeah, dogs they say. We were preaching in this one convention that the dogs are also fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be legal too because the dogs do that also."
Brahmananda: "Their argument was because the dogs have homosex, therefore the man should have?"
Bahulasva: "Should have homosex."
Dharmadhyaksa: "Yes, if an animal does it, then a human being should have the same right to do it also."
Jayatirtha: "Then they can pass stool in the street also?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Then what is the difference between man and animal? They do not find any difference'J"(25)
Pig standard of pleasure?
Brahmananda: "Because there is some sex pleasure that makes it tolerable."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, that is the, what is called topmost ignorance, topmost ignorance, that 'This is happiness..
So the materialistic person means only for the happiness they are suffering so much, this way. They agree. Yes
Just like Dr., B... Maharaja was speaking that they are talking freely?"
Brahmananda: "Db, about homosexuality."
Srila Prabhupada: "Oh Yes. What is the wrong? It is pleasure. They take it as pleasure."
Brahrnananda: "The priests. They're in the theological seminary, and they are priests, and they are saying that it
is pleasurable, so why not do it?"
Srila Prabhupada: "And what is the pleasure? Stool passing and urine passing points are joined together, and it is
pleasure. Just see their standard of pleasure. Just like the pigs. With pleasure they eat stool, standard of pleasure
had gone down so low. This is Kali-Yuga."(26)
Priests aBowing homosex !
Srila Prabhupada: "If you have an ideal group of men then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But
do not mind I don't find any ideal group of men. Priests should be ideal character. And they are advocating
homosex. So where is the ideal character of men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit,
and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?"
Director: "But homosexual is a sickness."
Devotee: "He says it's an illness."
Director: "It is an illness. It's just like a person can't see, you would punish him for not seing. You can't punish
a person for being a homosexual. That our society says."
Srila Prabhupada: "Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex."
Director: "Pardon."
Srila Prabhupada: "Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married
by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper.
They are condemning, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is
passed. "All right." And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex. So where is the ideal
character" (27)
Homosex in the cburthes.
Brahrnananda: "Actually you're supposed to see other women as mother."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes."
Brahmananda: "But not one's own wife."
Srila Prabhupada: "No. Para-daresu, Matrvat para-daresu. That is the injunction oCthe sas Other's wife. Not
that 'Db, my wife is also my mother.' Just see. This lunacy is going on. and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation
of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you
enjoy too much, then you become impotent..."
Brahmananda: "They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America, homosex."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, churches accept. It is already law."
Nitai: "This women's liberation movement. the leaders are also homosexual. They're lesbians."
Srila Prabhupada [laughs]: "Just see. Hare Krsna. The whole world is on the verge of ruination. Kali-Yuga."(28)
Priests are homosexuals?
Srila Prabhupada: "That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said. some sprinkling water. They have
no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in the Bible. Now you say that 'Thou shall not kill;'
they say, 'Thou shall not murder.' They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning man to man
marriage. They are sanctioning abortion."
Acyutananda: "Yes, two homosexuals were married by a priest."
SrilaPrabhupada:"Yes." .
Tamala Krsna: "Now they have a church where the priests are homosexuals and the attending people are homosexuals."
Srila Prabhupada: "Hm'!'
Tamala Krsna: "Now they have churches for homosexuals. That means the priest is a homosexual, and the persons
who come are homosexuals. A special church for homosexuals."
Srila Prabhupada: "Just see. Is that religion'!' (29)
Just see.
" The things have been topsy-turvied. A person on religious category, he is advocating something. Oh, it is not to
be uttered. Homosex. He is advocating homosex. Just see."(30)
Less than animals?
Srila Prabhupada: "Because they have given up the real principles. They are simply animals. Therefore there are
so many problems. Actually there is no problem. Even they are not animal. Less than animal. In animal society
there is no problem. There is problem, but not so acute. They are free. Just like the ducks, the pigeons, they fly
from one country to another. They have no problem of immigration department, passport or visa. They have no
problem. These rascals should understand that they have created problem on account of their animalistic, less than
animalistic civilization. There is no limit of sense gratification. The sense gratification homosex they are supporting.
Just see. Just see. At least in animal society there is no homosex. They have created homosex, and that is
. being passed by the priest, the religious heads. You know that."
Devotee: "Yes, I have heard."
Srila Prabhupada: "Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less
than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all
realize then challenge"(31)
So called swamis supporting homosex!
" Ifyougivegoodinstructionto the rascals,hewill simplybe angry. Hewill not takeadvantageof it. This is our
position. All the so-called professors, philosophers, they are all in the pravrtti marga. ...Our difficulty the so-called
swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravrtti-marga. All these priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravrrti
marga. So they are passing." 'Yes, you can have homosex with man.' They are getting man-to-man marriage.
You know? They are perfonning the marriage ceremony between man-to-man in the open church. What class of
man they are. And they are priests. Just see. Such degraded persons."(32)
Not even fourth class men! Animal class.
Srila Prabhupada: "They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education.
Just see. They are not even fourth class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's all dogs
and hogs... in the beginning samah. Sarnah, damah... first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind
undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so sexually disturbed, they are discussing the profit of homosex.
Where is first class men?"
Amogha: "They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, fourth class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth
class man's philosophy we will have to waste our time to hear them. That's not good. They are not even fourth
class men; they are animal class. Fourth class man has got some position, but they are naradhama, the lowest of
mankind. So what is their philosophy and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy."(33)
The origin of the manusa-maithuna-apa-sampradaya.
Did GBC members "vehemently support" a homosexual deviant?
The facts.
It might be helpful to remember in this connection that some members and gurus [!] of the managerial commission
did reinstate and vote back a known homosexual Guru in March of 1986, back to the position of guru. This is
summarized by the same devotee cited earlier.
"Last year [1986] the entire Acharya block, the six most powerful ...[names withheld] vehemently supported
B...dasa. They did not even put in a single restriction on him like he should stay in the temple every single day of
his life and attend morning and evening programs, the association of good devotees and go on Harinama. or active
preaching program and give up his bad association and unusual lifestyle etc. They let him go unchanged... As one
of them told us. 'This is Kali-Yuga. we cannot chop down our men for some fall downs."'(34 )
No shame.?
"The heart is so contaminated. so deeply attached that even after gross falldown, he [ B Dasa] he does not want
to give up worship and adoration, on the same level as Srila Prabhupada. blind imitation. No shame. No remorse.
no guilt. Shameless oolitics and our bi22est leaders suPQOrted.Vox ooouli. So where are they?"(3S)
Protect Prabhupada's son?
"Our great scholar H... Goswami, flaunted all philosophical principles, when he gave a sentimental rap to the
so-called temple presidents' meeting, fixed and managed by the blind followers ofB... & Co. 'B... is Prabhupada's
son and we must protect him' as if all of us who have been serving Prabhupada without being GBC and GURUare
not Prabhupada's soO5."(36)
Special gift for Lord Caitanya on His SOOthappearance?
The author of the ISKCON purification paper continues: "We all went back to our temples with our hearts broken
and hopes shattered having given Lord Caitanya a wonderful gift of a faggot guru... on His SOOthappearance day.
lfB
We were absolutely convinced our leaders were destroying ISKCON."(37)
Biggest frustration? Witnessing the raping of ISKCON?
"The biggest frustration of all was of course S... Maharaja. who is respected by all and all. as great Brahmana and
advanced Vaisnava. who is said to have abstained from voting. Like Bhismadeva he witnessed the raping of
ISKCON without protest. Maybe he should make up for his mistake by going to Australia and cleaning up the
place."(38)
Let us again refresh our memories about Srila Prabhupada' s statements regarding ecclesiastical leaders supporting
or condoning homosexality.
Srila Prabhupada: "No, the Christian churches, all the priests they are eating meat. They are supporting everything,
homosex everything, man-to-man marriage."(39)
Ecclesiastical poUution?
Srila Prabhupada: "It is not their fault. The Western civilization is like that. Now you have to make a thorough
change. The persons from the ecclesiastical order, they are so polluted, they are sanctiong homosex. abortion.
What can be done for the common man?"(40)
Supporting homosex?
Ramesvara: "00 the decline of the church in America, and they say that the biggest reason in the last few years is
that Pope, he issued one big statement against birth control and abortion. He said: 'Catholics.cannot practice birth
control and abortion.' He said: 'Catholics cannot practice birth control and should never have abortion.' So they
did not like this. So that is the biggest reason for the decrease in attending the church. They broke away from the
authority. "
Srila Prabhupada: "That means if the church allows sense gratification without restriction.,then they'll attend the
church. That is the conclusion,"
Tamala Krsna: "They're dictating."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes."
Tamala Krsna: "The mass is dictating, same thing as in."
Srila Prabhupada: "That means conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but
the sinful. Pope said 'You cannot do this sinful,' and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church."
Ramesvara: "Even the priests, they said when the Pope issued that document, they lost faith in him as the representative
of God."
Prabhupada: "Just see, rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they're supporting homosex. So when the priests are
sinful, the public is sinful. How the church will go on."(41)
Fourth, fifth class men.
Jagadisa: "I remember, Srila Prabhupada, when 1was young 1was brought up in the Catholic church, and I learned
to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to..."
Srila Prabhupada: "Association.,everything is bad. So degraded condition.,there is no good association. Therefore
I say that we require first class man section. A first class... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests...
All third class, fourth class, fifth class men. Indulging in homosex these rascals are priests. And they'll protect
religion,"(42)
Based on these important conversations by Srila Prabhupada. one cannot even imagine the position of a so-<:alled
Brahmana or S<KalledVaishnava Guru. what to speak of a group of gurus who "vehemently supported" the reinstatement
of a known homosexual Guru under the guise of a so-called Guru reform. Srila Prabhupada did not
approve of this homosex degradation
The argument is sometimes put forward by some sentimental supporters of the Samsthapaka-Acaryas of the
rnanusa-maithuna-apa-sampradaya. or the Founding-Acaryas of the homosex deviant so-called disciplic succession
within the GBC, that this was a mistake and we were inexperienced and we did not really know. Let us examine.
again. some very pointed and pertinent instructions of Srila Prabhupada in this connection to some of His leading
devotees. First. let us carefully hear the purport of the Sampradaya-Acarya on the topic of monkey business in the
sacred places.
Deterioration of the church by monkey renunciation.
Tarnala Krsna: "I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He always maintained a government
servicejob, and still."
Srila Prabhupada: "He gave so much service to Krsna. For his family maintenance... He could have renounced. but
he said that the family has to be maintained... So he... markata vairagya. Bhaktivinoda Thakura was against giving
sannyasa. He didn't like these babajis, they were markata vairagya, superficially... Markata vairagya means monkey.
They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That's vairagya. But three dozen wives... Markata vairagya
nahi paraloka dasaya. So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into."
Tarnala Krsna: "The Christians had that happen to them."
Srila Prabhupada: "Hmm?"
Tarnala Krsna: "The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense
gratification. "
Srila Prabhupada: "Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing. No nothing,
simplythat dressand cloth. That's all." .
Tarnal Krsna: "Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up
everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could
take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more, they added the
degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order."
Srila Prabhupada: "No they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homose, giving manto-
man marriage. You know that? That is going on. Doing everything nonsense." (43)
'They are passing to homosex religion.' 'Priests doing aUrascal nonsense!~
Srila Prabhupada: "The injunction is 'Thou shall not kill.' They are simply killing. How it will be effective."
Tarnala Krsna: "The priests are doing all rascal nonsense. Homosex."
Srila Prabhupada: "They announced that... there is hospital for drunkard priest"
Tarnala Krsna: ..Alcoholic priests."
Srila Prabhupada: ..And they have introduced gambling."

Tamala Krsna: ..And homosex."
Srila Prabhupada: "Homosex, what is that religion? And they are passing to homosex, religion. They're getting
marriedmanto man. Mostdegraded." .
Hari Sauri: "There is no difference between the behavior of a priest and the behavior of a gross atheist."
Srila Prabhupada: "Yes."(44)
With regards to the proposal for a so-called debate. The managerial commission and its officers and apologists
must first resolve among themselves who was involved in the secret vote of 8 to 6 in March of 1986 reinstating a
known homosexual as a guru. This has been unceremoniously referred to by various devotees as the "homosexual
50
reinstatement ceremony." This naturally brings up several questions.
I ) Based on Srila Prabhupada's statements in the above conversations, are individuals who support and condone
homosexual activities, hwnan or sub-hwnan?
2) If the managerial commission still proposes that such individuals are devotees or Vaishnava devotees or Brabmanas
and Gurus, then where in Srila Prabhupada' s books, or in any other sastras for that matter, is there any
evidence of a group of Brahmanas or Vaishnava gurus engaging in a 'homosexual guru reinstatement ceremony.'
such as what occured in the GBC meetings in Mayapura, India in March of 1986.
3) Further. where in the history of Vaishnavism, specifically according to Srila Prabhupada's original books and
purports, have any bona fide Vaisnava Acaryas or gurus, ever voted others to be gurus or elected other gurus while
participating in the reinstatement ceremony of a known homosexual in the guise of a Guru? What is the authority
and effectiveness of such a so<a11edvote or certification?
4) If the managerial commission or their apologists propose a debate, are the proposed participants from the
managerial commission's side, prepared to first publicly dissasociate and distance themselves from the 8 GBC
participants [or the remainder thereof and others who abstained from voting] in the "homosexual guru[!] reinstatement"
who secretly voted to allow the same homosexual devotee to remain in his position as a guru and still accept
guru-puja. and guru-daksina. even after engaging in the above questionable activities?
5) If they are not prepared to do so, then let the proposed debaters and participants first answer the above mentioned
questions 2 and 3 before any proceedings even begi~?
In closing this section. let us all remember the clear words of Srila Prabhupada with regards to such activities in
the sacred-dhama.
Rectal and genital business in the Dhama?
" Whenthe worldbecomesdegraded.civilizationbecomesdemoniac,andforthecommonmanthe rectumand the
genital are taken very seriously as the centers of all activity. Even in such a sacred place as Vrindavana. unintelligent
men pass off this rectal and genital business as spiritual activity. Such people are called sahajiya. According
to their philosophy, through sexual indulgence one can elevate themselves to the spiritual platform. From these
verses of Srimad-Bhagavatarn however, we understand that the desires for sexual satisfaction are meant for the
arvak, the lowest among men. To rectify these rascals and fools is very difficult. After all, the sex desires of the
common man are condemned in these verses. The word dunnada means 'wrongly directed.' and nirrti means
"sinful activity." Although this clearly indicates that sex indulgence is abominable and misdirected even from the
ordinary point of view, the sahajiyas nonetheless pass themselves of as devotees conducting spiritual activities."
(44)
SEC110NCONCLUSION
1. The false theory that a bona fide Vaishnava Acarya or guru deviates or takes on demoniac qualities such as
homOsexuality,child abuse and lor molestation. illicit sexual behaviors etc, is a serious philosophical deviation and
is not Srila Prabhupada's teachings. .
2. The false theory that a group of so-called bona fide Acaryas or gurus can be involved in a 'homosexual guru
reinstatement' is against Srila Prabhupada' s teachings. Further the participants, promoters and or advocates of
such an unauthorized activity are not bona fide Vaishnava Acaryas according to Srila Prabhupada's warnings as
mentioned above.
51
3. The equally false theory that after engaging in such an unconscionable unauthorized activity such Acaryas or
gurus could vote other acaryas or gurus is a deviation from Srila Prabhupada' s teachings.
~. Srila Prabhupada clearly warns that such deviants should be avoided: "If a spiritual master does not speak
according to the revealed scriptures he is not to be accepted." (45)
Thus. the proponents of a so-called debate should first deal ~ith the serious ramifications of their homosex
acarya reinstatement philosophy as mentioned above before they can start to deal with any philosophical contentions.
References. Part Three.
Citations and quotations used under authority of Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, Fair Use Exception.
(1) His Divine Grace A.c. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Room Conversations with Srila Prabhupada May 3.
1976, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA.[Los Angeles, CA, USA, Prabhupada Folio, 1991]
(2) HDGACBSP Letters from Srila Prabhupada Vol 3. Srila Prabhupada letter to Madhudvisa Maharaja. July 8,
1972 [Mexico City, Mexico. The Vaisnava Institute 1986]
(3) ibid. SPL letter to Locananda dasa July 7, 1975.
(4) ibid SPL to Kirtanananda Maharaja October 5, 1974.
(5)[HDG]ACBS[P] Easy Journey to Other Planets, page 24, item 4, [New Delhi, India. The League of Devotees,
1960].
(6) HDGACBSP The Nectar of Devotioll, Ch 14. p.117, "Devotional Qua1ifications"[Bostoll, MS, USA ISKCON
press, 1970]
(7) HDGACBSP Bbagavad-Gita As It Is 4.40. [New York, NY, USA. The MacMillan Company, 1972]
(8) Science of Self-Realization, p.61. "Separating the Saints from the swindlers."[Los Angeles. CA. USA. Bhaktivedanta
Book Trust, 1977]
(9) Sripada Bala<ievaVidyabhusana, Prameya Ratnavali, Introduction text 4, [Los Angeles, CA, USA, Peter Viggiani,
Kusakratha dasa, The Krsna Institute, 1987]
(10) as in item # I February, 23, 1974 Bombay, India.
(II) HDGACBSP Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta Antya-Lila 5.71 [Los Angeles, CA, USA. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust,
1975.]
(12) HDGACBSP Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.7.13 [Los Angeles, CA. USA. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, 1975].
(13) ibid.
(14) as in item # 2 SPL to Brabmananda dasa August 1968.
(15) ibid SPL to Rupanuga dasa December 4, 1970.
(16) ibid SPL to Rebatinandana Swami February 2, 1972.
(17) as in item # I. May 3, 1976 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA.
(18) ibid.
(19) GBC report. "Guru-Asraya, Maintaining shelter in the Guru-Parampara." A paper offering guidance from the
GBC. Approved by GBC resolution. p.6. Mayapura, India. March 22, 1989.
(20) GBC "Gurus and initiations in ISKCON" sections 1.5.4 1.5.4.1. 1.5.4.2 1.5.4.3. 1.5.4.4. [GBC, March
1995].
(21) as in item # 5.
(22) as in item # 12 S.B. 3.20.26 [1973]
(23) as in item # 1 August 25, 1971 London, England.
(24) as in item # 1 May 9, 1975 Perth, Australia.
(25) as in item # I July 16, 1975 San Francisco, Ca, USA
(26) as in item # 1 September I, 1975 Vrindavana, India.
(27) as in item # I May 21, 1975 Melbourne, Australia.
(28) as in item # 1 September 6, 1975. Vrndavana, India.
(29) as in item # I January 8, 1976 Nellore, India.
(30) as in item # 1 May 21, 1972 Los Angeles, CA, USA.
(31) as in item# 1 August25, 1971 London,England.
(32) as in item # 1May 13, 1975 Perth, Australia.
(33) ibid May 13, 1975.
(34) Yasomati nandana dasa. "The ISKCON purification." 1987.
(35) ibid.
(36) ibid.
(37) ibid.
(38) ibid
(39) as in item # 1 May 28, 1975 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA.
(40) as in item # 1 April 8, 1976
(41) as in item # 1 June 6. 1976 Los Angeles, CA, USA.
(42) as in item # 1 June 17, 1976 Toronto, Canada.
(43) as in item # 1 Apri128, 1977 Bombay, India.
(44) as in item # 1 February 16, 1977 Mayapura, India.
(45) as in item # 11 Madhya-Lila 20.352.
Nama Om VisnuPadaya Krsna Presthaya Bhuta/e Srimate Bhaktivedanta Swamin iti Namine
Namaste Sarasvate Deve Gauravan; Pracarine Nirv;sesa Sunyavadi Pascatya Desa Tarine
Sri Krsna Caitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Adva;ta Gadadhara Srivasa Adi Gaura Bhakta Vrinda.
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
THE TRADITION OF DEBATE.
Part Four
The infiltration of Nastika-vada [atheism] into ISKCON.
[Na- not Astika- believer in Vedic religious principles, vada- philosophical tenet i.e, an atheist or an unbeliever in
the sacred Vedic principles.] "Atheism means defying the authority of the Vedas and decrying the great Acaryas
who teach Vedic scriptures for the benefit of the people in general." (I)
Srila Prabhupada had often warned about the necessity of keeping the purity of His movement and not to introduced
concOCtedor manufactured ideas. One of the negative results of the various deviant philosophies postulated
and introduced by some members of the GBC in the last 19 years has been a rise in nonsensical and disrespectful
comments and philosophies against the Sampradaya-Acarya, Srila Prabhupada, the previous Mahajanas and
saintly acaryas, such as lA>rdBrahrna, Lord Shiva, Arjuna and the exalted saintly Vaishnava acaryas. We reproduce
here a few samples of comments made by some of the members of the GBC Acarya board and some GBCs to
illustrate the great danger of disobedience and disrepect to the current Sampradaya-Acarya. His Divine Grace Srila
Prabhupada. It is significant that the Vaishnava Vedic tradition prohibits a student from becoming impudent or
disrespectful towards his guru or the previous Acaryas or saintly personalities. This is technically called guru
aparadha and when this mentality is pushed further it is called guru-mara-vidya. Srila Prabhupada explains thus:
Yasomatinandana: "Spiritual master gives knowledge, and then a disciple is eternally indebted to spiritual master."
Prabhupada: "Yes."
Hrdayananda: "Jaya."
Yasomatinandana: "It is not that, like mayavadis, they serve the spiritual master in the beginning and then they..."
Prabhupada: "Then they..."
Yasomatinandan: "Themselves become"
Prabhupada: "Throw him away, , Go away. I have now learned.' Guru-mara-vidya, to the knowledge of how to kill
guru. Guru-mara-vidya. Their, the philosophy is that you cannot rise up. You take a ladder. But as soon as you
rise, throwaway the ladder. No more. No more needed. That is mayavada philosophy. Our philosophy is
dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam. "
Yasomatinandana : "Three."
Prabhupada: "Eternally... We should always remain servant of the servant. Never we shall think that' I am better
than My Guru Maharaja.' That is fall down. Hare Krsna. Hare. .. Our Juhu Beach is very nice."
Yasomatinandana: "Yes, Prabhupada."(2)
" We are reading every day, Yasyaprasadad bhagavat prasadah. As soon as this poison will come 'suppress Guru
and I become Brahman' everything finished. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Matha finished, that..., violated
the orders of Guru Maharaja."(3)
Gurusu nara matib...yasya vai narald sah
One of the unfortunate results of the disobedience of the Acarya' s order, impudent imitation of the Acarya and the
unauthorized changes to the sacred books of the Acarya. and the distorting the original and pure teachings of the
Acarya is that gradually one starts to think of the empowered Acarya[s] as an ordinary man or subject to the
conditional defects of an ordinary man. Some of the comments and statements reproduced below are examples of
that unfortunate mentality. We have purposely withheld the names of the individuals who have made these comments
to keep this in good taste. It should be noted thatthere are many more comments but we do not wish to
unnecessary increase the bulk of this presentation. These Citations are not necessarily in chronological order.
Enlivened soirituaUv!
" Prabhupada wants to become enlivened spiritually. you know, by some spiritual activity" !(4)
Pume all the~nvious Godbrothers out!
" This new Guru process will purge all the envious Godbrothers out of ISKCON!" (5)
Let them all leave we have Slotour own discioles now!
Devotee to ISKCON Guru: Are you not concerned that many of Prabhupada's disciples devotees have left and
ha,;e been upset over the Vyasa-Asanas and the imitation of Srila Prabhupada.?
ISKCON Guru: Let the them [Prabhupada's disciples) all leave. We got our own disciples now!" (6)
Who cares for whom?
" Who cares for Madhva and Ramanuja, we [the GBC] are followers of Srila Prabhupada.. !."(7)
More than Prabhupada?
" All the things that Prabhupada wanted done are now being done more than when Prabhuoada was here" (8)
Not acceotinSl reality.
" It is no longer practical, that Prabhupada is not here, just to emphasize Prabhupada. I mean this is not accepting
reality... Wait a minute, Who has got those tapes...?"(9)
Don't say so much 'Prabhuoad said'!
"You should not say so much 'Prabhupada said' You should say... Maharaja said"! (10)
Ven human!.
" I invite the reader to enjoy the very real human life story of Srila Prabhupada." (11)
It is not in PrabhuRada's books~
" We cannot accept these quotations from the books of the Goswarnis because they are not in Prabhupada's
books." (12)
SQirituai mistakaJ
" Our mistakes are spiritual" (13)
Crititizin2 the Mahaianas.
" Examoles of great devotees having difficulty"
" Lord Brahma was affected by sex attraction for his daughter"
" Arjuna had difficulties in the beginning of the battle of Kuruksetra, but it was due to his losing sight of Krsna."
ss-
., At the same time the association of materialistic persons who are attached to money and women should be strictly
avoided. Even Bhismadeva, who was one of the great Mahajanas. or authorities in understanding Krsna Consciousness,
was affected by this materialistic association. This manifested at the assembly when Draupadi was
insulted by Duhsasana." (14)
Prabhuoada as ordinary man!
" Entering the room I see Prabhupada as ordinary, in my unloving eyes"! (15)
Srila Prabhul!!da an idol!
., Oh, the mUfti [Prabhupada's mUfti]looks like an idol." (16)
Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura: A lousy mana2er!
"Even Bhaktisiddhanta, He was a lousy manager."(17)
Is Krishna-liia mytholo2V?
"I confessed I battle constantly with doubts whether Krsna-Lila is mythological!"(18)
Greatoenons who considered themselves 2reat off'enden.
" Examples of great personalities who considered themselves great offenders:
I. Lord Balarama, after killing Romaharsana Suta.
2. Parasurama, after killing the ksatriyas.
3. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, who refused to take mango, saying," No, I am offender."
4. Srila Prabhupada, who begged forgiveness in his last days for offending His Godbrothers.
5. Narottama dasa and Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who lament in their songs not exactly for having committed
offenses, but for wasting their lives in materiallife."(19)
Guru acts demonicall:I!
" If a guru becomes openly inimical to Srila Prabhupada or ISKCON; or otherwise acts demonically."(20)
Send Him a letter and...?
"Why don't you send Prabhupada a letter and please tell us what he [ Srila Prabhupada] replies." (21 )
Even Prabhuoada made mistakes?
"Oh, even Prabhupada made mistakes. He even made mistakes."(22)
WasPrabhuoada a oaramahansa?
" How do you know that Prabhupada was a paramaharnsa? How do you know that I am a not a paramaharnsa!"
(23)
Devotee: So what is this philosophy that you are claiming that pure devotees can fall down?
ISKCON Sannyasi : Oh yes, in the Caitanya-Caritamrta, it says that even a Maha-Bhagavata can fall down?
Devotee: But do you any examples of that?
ISKCON sannyasi: [silent] (24)
Even Prabbuoada could have fallen down!
Devotee:"Do you mean to say that according to your philosophy, if all living entities can fall down, could Prabhupactahave
fallen down?"
ISKCON Guru: "Oh yes. that is always a possibility. Even he could fall down." (25)
No oersonalitv cult!
" We should not make the Prabhupada centennial into a personality cult" (26)
No one_can stoll us.
Devotee to an ISKCON guru and GBC: "How is it that the GBC is allowing changes in Srila Prabhupada's
books?"
GBC-Guru: " We [the GBC) have the authority to change Prabhupada's books and the BBTand the Archives have
to do it No one can stop us!" (27) Last but not least.
Personalm of Kali infiltation.
"The personality ofKali has infiltrated the highest places in this movement!" (28)
Srila Prabhupada clearly warns all of His students not to think of the spiritual master an ordinary man. The
strongest warning in all of Srila Prabhupada's teachings is found in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:
" Thereforea devoteewhoengagesin the serviceof the SupremeLordand whoconstantlythinksof Himshould
never be considered to have a material body. It is therefore enjoined. gurusu nara-matih: one sboold stop thinking
of the spiritual master as an ordinary human being with a material body. Arcye vishnau si/a-dhih: everyone
knows that the deity in the temple is made of stone, but to think that the deity is merely a stone is an offense.
Similarly to think that the body of the spiritual master consists of material ingredients is offensive. Atheists think
that devotees foolishly worship a stone statue as God and an ordinary man as the guru. The fact is however, that
by the grace of Krsna' s omnipotence, the so-called stone statue of the deity is directly the Supreme Personality of
Godhead. and the body of the spiritual master is directly spiritual."(29)
And what is the position of a so-called Vaishnava who finds fault with an empowered pure devotee like Srila
Prabhupada.
" The same principles can be applied to demoniac persons, even though they may be in the Sampradaya of Lord
Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Without receiving the Lord's special power one cannot preach His Glories allover the
world. Even though one may celebrate himself as a learned follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and even though
one may attempt to preach the holy name of the Lord. if he is not favored by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu he will find
fault with the pure devotee and will not be able you understand how a preacher is empowered by Lord Caitanya."(
30)
But why would anyone even attempt to find fault with or deprecate the position of an exalted Acarya, especially
someone like Srila Prabhupada and the previous acaryas [mahajanas].
" Influenced by an envious temperament and dissatisfied because of an attitude of sense gratification, mundaners
criticize a real acarya. In fact, however, a bona fide acarya is non-different from the Personality of Godhead. and
therefore to envy such an acarya is to envy the Personality of Godhead Himself. This will produce an effect
subversive to transcendental realization." (3 I)
5"7
As indicated earlier in this essay, a student is forbidden to look upon his spiritual master as an ordinary man. On
this occasion of Srila Prabhupada' s centennial celebration in 1996, we sincerely hope and pray that the leaders of
our ISKCON movement will sincerely reflect upon the seriousness of the past deviations and numerous concoctions
and make the necessary attempts to correct the profoundly deviated philosophies which have affected the entire
movement and unfortunately resulted in unnecessary dissensions, divisions and factions and many devotees to
become driven away from Srila Prabhupada' s movement. The proponents of a debate or disputation should try to
first consider rooting out the atheistic [nastika] influence from their own backyard before they proceed in the debate
arena.
SUGGESTIONS FOR RECTIFICATION.
1. The GBC should re~stablish the exclusive worship of the Sarnpradaya-Acarya, His Divine Grace Ac. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Prabhupada in all ISKCON temples, schools and properties.
2. The GBC should establish that all temple altars and photographs and all pranama prayers should be exclusively
reserved for Srila Prabhupada and the exalted pure devotee purva-acaryas of His eternally pure disciplic succession.
3. The GBC should immediately and publicly abandon its "Asura Guru-vada", the concocted and false theory that
a bona fide guru may "take on demoniac qualities." A properly and carefully worded statement from the GBC of
ISKCON that there is no such thing as a fallen guru or a demon guru and a full public clarification that the bona
fide acaryas of the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-pararnpara are never contaminated
4. The GBC should issue a public apology from all its current members and the ISKCON gurus for all the false
philosophies and bogus concoctions which they have propagated and institutionalized for the last 19 years. In
addition, the original eleven, or the remainder thereof, should personally and physically approach all of Srila
Prabhupada's disciples and followers and apologize to the thousands of devotees who have been mercilessly driven
away from the shelter of Srila Prabhupada' s movement. In addition a public apology should be signed by all of
them and printed in full pages in all ISKCON media for the GBC's participation in the said bogus philosophies
and concoctions. .
5. The GBC should pass an immediate resolution that all of Srila Prabbupada's disciples and followers are fully
welcome in any of Srila Prabhupada's temples and communities, even if they have disagreements with GBC policies
or philosophies.
6. The GBC should have a full public accounting and disclosure of all the moneys that have been collected and
spent on projects such as the Prabhupada Sarnadhis, the guru-daksinas, Guru travel accounts, etc.
7. The GBC should put an immediate stop by to all the unauthorized changes in Srila Prabhupada' s books and all
the books of Srila Prabbupada should be returned to their original first printed edition as ordered by Srila Prabbupada
in June of 1977.
8. The entire GBC and the administrators of the ISKCON Gurukula system should issue a full public and written
apology to the hundreds, if not thousands of children, who have been abused and/or neglected in the so-called
gurukula system after 1977.
9. The GBC should conduct a full-fledged, open, thorough public inquiry into the Guru appointment hoax which
was widely propagated throughout the ISKCON society in the aftermath of Srila Prabhupada's departure in
November of 1977. Any and all GBC and Gurus sbould.answer all relevant questions. The proceedings of this
public inquiry should be recorded and made available to every ISKCON devotee and congregational member.
Then we may have the sufficient information to conduct a proper discussion, disputation and or debate.
This paper is presented as a centennial offering at the lotus feet of His Divine Grace Ac. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and the current Sarnpradaya
58
Acarya of the Brahrna-Madhva-Gaudiya-Sampradaya, as a humble attempt to reunite His Divine transcendental movement. We apologize to any devotees who may feel offended by any of the statements or inferences in this publication. We sincerely hope that this will be a prelude to future intelligent fruitful discussions.
Completedon Monday July 29, 1996. Purnirna [Full Moon], of the month of Varnana, Gaura-Paksa [bright-half], the disappearance day of Srila Sanatana Goswami and beginning of Caturrnasya.
References Part four
Citations and quotations used under authority of Title 17 u.S.c. Section 107, Fair Use Exception.
(1) [HDG] AC. Bhaktivedanta Swami [prabhupada] Nectar of Devotion, Ch. 7. [Boston,MS, USA ISKCONPress, 1970]
(2) His Divine Grace Ac. Bhativedanta Swami Prabhupada, Morning Walk Conversation December 5, 1973 Los Angeles, Ca, USA [Los Angeles, CA, USA, Prabhupada Folio, 1991]
(3) ibid Apri120, 1977 Bombay, India.
(4) GBC representative November 11, 1977 Vrindavana, India.
(5) ISKCON Guru and GBC representative to two other GBCs Mayapura, India. Gaura Pumirna. March 1978.
(6) ISKCON Guru to Gurukula teacher October 1978 Vrindavana, India.
(7) ISKCON Gurus and GBCs to a Gurukula teacher Late February 1979 Vrindavana, India
(8) ISKCON Guru and GBC representative late February 1979 Morning Bhagavatam class Vrindavana, India.
(9) ISKCON Guru and GBC representative late February 1979 GBC meeting in Krsna-Balarama temple guest house, Vrindavana, India,
(10) ISKCON Guru and GBC representative to a senior Prabhupada disciple 1980. Central USA
(11) ISKCON Guru and former GBC representative. Lilarnrta Vol I. pg. xix.
(12) GBC representative GBC meeting late February 1979 Vrindavana, India.
(13) ISKCON Guru and GBC. 1981 Northeast USA
(14) GBC oflSKCON- GBC report from Dallas, Tx, USA
(15) ISKCON Guru and former GBC December 14, 1985
(16) ISKCON Guru and former GBC December 14, 1985
(17) ISKCON Guru and GBC Central USA
(18) ISKCON Guru and former GBC 'Here is Srila Prabhupada' pg. 56 11.00 a.m.
(19) ISKCON Guru and former GBC 'Guru Reform Notebook' pg.24-25.
(20) ISKCON GBC. GBC report 1995 page 6 1.5.4.4. 'Removal'
(21) ISKCON Guru-GBC January 1990, San Diego, CA, USA right in front of Srila Prabhupada' s divine mUfti.
(22) ISKCON Sannyasi to 2 Prabhupada disciples. ISKCON Tuscon, AZ, USA September 1992.
(23) ISKCON Guru and GBC to 2 senior Prabhupada disciples. Rathayatra July 1993 Calcutta, India.
(24) ISKCON Guru and GBC to a devotee. Rathayatra August 1993 Los Angeles, CA, USA:
(25) ISKCON Guru and GBC to a senior Prabhupada disciple. August 1994 ISKCON Los Angeles, CA USA
(26) ISKCON Guru and GBC 1995.
(27) ISKCON Guru and GBC to a local devotee Los Angeles, CA, USA 1995.
(28) ISKCON Guru and disciple to a senior Prabhupada disciple. Badger, CA, USA Fall 1992.
(29) HDGACBSP Srimad-Bhagavatam 8.3.2. [Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.,Los Angeles, CA, USA 1976]
(30) HDGACBSP Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta Madhya-Lila 11. 103 [Bhaktivedanta Book Trust., Los Angeles, CA, USA 1976]
(31) as in item # 30 Adi-Lila 5.36 August 17, 1980 Journals and Poems.

Nama Om Visnu Padaya Krsna Presthaya Bhuta/e Srimate Bhaktivedanta Swamin iti Namine
Namaste Sarasvate Deve Gauravani Pracarine Nirvisesa Sunyavadi Pascatya Desatarine

Sri Krsna Caitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita Gadadhara Srivasadi Gaura Bhakta Vrinda.
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Ramo Hare Hare

Nama Om Visnu Padaya Krsna Presthaya Bhutale
Srimate Bhaktivedanta Swamin iti Namine

Namaste Sarasvate Deve Gauravani Pracarine
Nirvisesa Sunyavadi Pascatya Desa Tarine

Sri Krsna Caitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita
Gadadhara Srivasa adi Gaura Bhakta Vrinda.

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare