Hare Krsna
Below we are trying to give an explanation as to how new bhaktas can become initiated in the present day by Srila Prabhupada- without iskcon, or any other institutional hierarchy.
First of all I want to point out that Prabhupada once said that todays Christians today can also become “Christians” or disciples of Jesus- if they accept his instructions. And this is 2000 years later !! So if Christians can accept and be recognized as disciples of Jesus Christ today why cant Srila Prabhupada with his millions of followers also become his disciples and do the same thing?
They can and here is the proof below from Srila Prabhupada himself.
May 24 1974 Rome
Prabhupāda: … Just like Lord Jesus Christ is a bona fide teacher, and he has given his teaching, his commandments. If you follow those commandments, then you are bona fide student. But if you don’t follow then you are not bona fide.
Richard Webster: And if you try to follow but fail or if you…
Prabhupāda: No, you must follow. You cannot fail. Just like Lord Christ says, “Thou shall not kill.” You must follow that. If you do not follow, then you are not Christian. It is not the question of that you could not follow or you are weak to follow. You must follow.
And how does one become a follower today of Prabhupada or Jesus?
Seattle Oct 2 1968
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus’s words, reach the…
Prabhupāda:When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?
Madhudviṣa:I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is not the question of… Spiritual master is eternal.Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept.As you say that “by reading Bible,” when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?
And what is the result of following such a bona fide spiritual master- Either Jesus or Srila Prabhupada?
Seattle oct 18 1968
Prabhupāda: …The test of any scripture is how one is developing love of God. Phalena paricīyate. If you find that following some religious principles you are developing your love of God, then it is perfect.It doesn’t matter whether it is Bible or Koran or Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn’t matter.We have to see what is the fruit. If the fruit is that people are developing love of Godhead, then it is perfect.
Don’t try to understand whether this is good, this is good, this is bad, this is… No. Try to understand by the result.Just like the same way: if you see the fruit, then it is first class.
So it doesn’t matter whether it is Bible or Gītā. If you can develop love of Godhead by reading Bible, it is first class, and if you can develop love of Godhead by Bhagavad-gītā, it is first class. And if you do not, then either it is Bible or the Koran or Bhagavad-gītā, it has no effect for you.
So it is up to you. Not by comparison, but by your own activities.If you actually follow the instruction given by Lord Jesus Christ, you will also develop love of Godhead.There is no doubt. Similarly, if you follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, you will also develop. So it is up to you. You try to follow. If you do not follow, simply try to make a comparative study “This is good” or “This is bad,” “This is bad” or “This is good,” that is called śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]—simply laboring. Why comparative study? Just see how much you are developing love of Godhead, that’s all. Phalena paricīyate.
Now to the present day and solving the so called problem of getting initiated today by Srila Prabhupada thru his bona fide representatives.
These revealing conversations solve that so called Problem. And one has to have a good and non envious brain to understand it.
BG 3.32--But those who, out of envy, disregard these teachings and do not practice them regularly, are to be considered bereft of all knowledge, befooled, and doomed to ignorance and bondage.
Some devotees think you need to have a complete so called” iskcon” structure in place BEFORE one can get initiated. This is simply not true.
Initiation does not depend upon some material formula or institutional structure to be in place BEFORE one can be accepted by Srila Prabhupada as his present day disciple.
All that need to be done is for one to accept the instructions given by His Divine Grace, (follow the 4 reg’s, chant 16 rounds daily) follow them for 6 months, be observed of this behavior by some senior devotees, and then one can be accepted thru some bona fide ritvik representative as a disciple, following the fire yajna ceremony, which is part of but not the necessary part of initiation. One should also follow the purascarya vidhi instructions-found in the quote at the end of this article for full success.
Having an institutional structure is not necessary nor did Srila Prabhuapada ever tell us that this was necessary for him to initiate someone.
In the beginning there was no “iskcon” institution with large temples, but only a few devotees scattered here and there trying to serve Srila Prabhupada. There was no GBC, there was not 108 temples worldwide. But what was there was Srila Prabhupada and a small group of dedicated followers who soon became his disciples.
Later this all expanded into many temples and thousands of devotees.
When I got initiated my temple president (TP) performed the ceremony after getting the letter of approval from Srila Prabhupada and I became Damaghosa das. Everyone knew the TP was not my guru, but that Srila Prabhupada was my guru. We had no idea at that time this was called a ritvik initiation-some deputed person (the TP) performing the initiation ceremony on behalf of the spiritual master Srila Prabhupada.
That was the system Prabhupada set up. He could not be there personally to initiate thousands of disciples so he deputed his leaders to do that function. And him being in that physical body at that time had nothing to do with giving diksa to thousands of disciples. Today that temple system he set up is now corrupted by so much personal ambition that any sane person can see that and really not want part of it.
There was a story told once in the Bible by Jesus who was approached by some Roman soldier who had some relative back home who was dying or sick and he asked Jesus to save them. Jesus told the soldier that he could not be present to heal that person to which the soldier said you dont need to be there as your ORDER to do so is sufficient. The soldier knew the power of command from the generals down the lowest man so he also knew that Jesus had this same power so all that was needed was for him Jesus to give the order and his relative would be saved. Jesus appreciated this correct understanding. So physical presence in not important in spiritual life because the order is the active principle. Just like when you make bread, withuout the yeast the dough wont rise. Even the Roman soldier understood this most basic principle.
Now lets look at some examples from the books..
Oct 16 1976–Prabhupāda: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. [break] …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing
Dec 10 1976…So anyway, from 1922 to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Mahārāja. Then officially I was initiated in 1933 because in 1923 I left Calcutta. I started my business at Allahabad.
Aug 11 1972-A disciple means one who is always following the orders of the spiritual master. So I instruct my disciples to refrain from four prohibitions, namely no eating of meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex life, no taking of intoxication, including tea, coffee, cigarettes, etc., and no gambling. Besides that my students must chant sixteen rounds of japa-mala of Hare Krsna mantra daily. So if you are able to follow these principles without fail, then you are as good as my disciple.
Aug 19 1968
The chanting Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there. Now the next initiation will be performed as a ceremony officially, of course that ceremony has value because the name, Holy Name, will be delivered to the student from the disciplic succession, it has got value, ….
Now below is the final directives Srila Prabhupada gave to his disciples, who very soon after disobeyed most of what he told them to do.
Who is nearest–SP
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything was “probably” in their books.
Prabhupāda: “Probably,” “maybe.”
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those are their favorite words. Śrīla Prabhupāda? We’re receiving a number of letters now, and these are people who want to get initiated. So up until now, since your becoming ill, we asked them to wait.
Prabhupāda: The local, mean, senior sannyāsīs can do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That’s what we were doing… I mean, formerly we were… The local GBC, sannyāsīs, were chanting on their beads, and they were writing to Your Divine Grace, and you were giving a spiritual name. So should that process be resumed, or should we…? I mean one thing is that it’s said that the spiritual master takes on the… You know, he takes on the… He has to cleanse the disciple by… So we don’t want that you should have to… Your health is not so good, so that should not be… That’s why we’ve been asking everybody to wait. I just want to know if we should continue to wait some more time.
Prabhupāda: No, the senior sannyāsīs…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they should continue to…
Prabhupāda: You can give me a list of sannyāsīs. I will mark who will…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.
Prabhupāda: You can do. Kīrtanānanda can do. And our Satsvarūpa can do. So these three, you can give, begin.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So supposing someone is in America, should they simply write directly to Kīrtanānanda or Satsvarūpa?
Prabhupāda: Nearby. Jayatīrtha can give.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayatīrtha.
Prabhupāda: Bhavānan…, er, Bhagavān. And he can do also. Harikeśa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: And… Five, six men, you divide who is nearest.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is nearest. So persons wouldn’t have to write to Your Divine Grace. They could write directly to that person?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually they are initiating the person on Your Divine Grace’s behalf. Those persons who are initiated are still your…
Prabhupāda: Second initiation we shall think over, second initiation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is for first initiation, okay. And for second initiation, for the time being they should…
Prabhupāda: No, they have to wait. Second initiation, that should be given…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should… Some devotees are writing you now for second initiation, and I’m writing them to wait a while because you’re not well. So can I continue to tell them that?
Prabhupāda: They can do second initiation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By writing you.
Prabhupāda: No. These men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These men, they can also do second initiation. So there’s no need for devotees to write to you for first and second initiation. They can write to the man nearest them. But all these persons are still your disciples. Anybody who gives initiation is doing so on your behalf.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know that book I’m maintaining of all of your disciples’ names? Should I continue that?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
This above very important conversation is shown to prove that Prabhupada wanted his most trusted men to carry on with the ritvik system of initiations. And for those in the world who were not close by to some iskcon temple, then they could become initiated by whoever was nearest to them. It had nothing to do with being attracted to some charismatic person, or who had the most disciples, or who had the highest guru asana.
The ritvik representatives were chosen by Srila Prabhupada, and whoever was closest to them, physically, then could take ritvik initiation from them.
Today this entire system is broken down and not likely to be revived anytime soon. So what are the thousands of worldwide aspiring bhaktas to do? Just forget getting initiated as a disciple of Srila Prabhupada UNTIL Iskcon fixes itself? Which could be never?
No- they can continue to become initiated by Srila Prabhupada by those sincere disciples who DO follow his orders up to the present. They can give bona fide ritvik initiations because they are following the orders of the spiritual master-without change.
Today besides many bona fide disciples who are qualified to offer ritvik initiations on behalf of Srila Prabhupada there are also some so called ritviks masquerading as “ritviks, who sit on very high asanas and let their so called ritvik disciples wash their feet, etc etc. This is all nonsense and one should be able to detect these imposters.
Some Conclusions–
To summarize– One can become a disciple today of Srila Prabhupada…or Jesus….
1) …“If you follow those commandments, then you are bona fide student
2)…When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without?
3)…Madhudviṣa:I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: . Spiritual master is eternal...Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept.As you say that “by reading Bible,” when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some (ritvik) priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?
4)…If you actually follow the instruction given by Lord Jesus Christ, you will also develop love of Godhead.There is no doubt.
5)…but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Mahārāja
6)..The chanting Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there.
So in none of the above quotes do we find Srila Prabhupada saying or telling us we need iskcon or some other institution to perform a ritvik initiation to make us bona fide disciples. It is all about following his orders-thats all.
Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
The below verse and purport is very important in understanding the processs of initiation into the chanting of the Holy Names.
TEXT 108
dīkṣā-puraścaryā-vidhi apekṣā nā kare
jihvā-sparśe ā-caṇḍāla sabāre uddhāre
SYNONYMS
dīkṣā—initiation; puraścaryā—activities before initiation; vidhi—regulative principles; apekṣā—reliance on; nā—not; kare—does; jihvā—the tongue; sparśe—by touching; ā-caṇḍāla—even to the lowest of men, the caṇḍāla; sabāre—everyone; uddhāre—delivers.
TRANSLATION
“One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [caṇḍāla] can be delivered.
PURPORT-Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī explains dīkṣā in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):
divyaṁ jñānaṁ yato dadyāt
kuryāt pāpasya saṅkṣayam
tasmād dīkṣeti sā proktā
deśikais tattva-kovidaiḥ
“Dīkṣā is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as dīkṣā.” The regulative principles of dīkṣā are explained in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa (2.3,4) and in Bhakti-sandarbha (283). As stated:
dvijānām anupetānāṁ svakarmādhyayanādiṣu
yathādhikāro nāstīha syāc copanayanād anu
tathātrādīkṣitānāṁ tu mantra-devārcanādiṣu
nādhikāro ‘sty ataḥ kuryād ātmānaṁ śiva-saṁstutam
“Even though born in a brāhmaṇa family, one cannot engage in Vedic rituals without being initiated and having a sacred thread. Although born in a brāhmaṇa family, one becomes a brāhmaṇa after initiation and the sacred thread ceremony. Unless one is initiated as a brāhmaṇa, he cannot worship the holy name properly.”
According to the Vaiṣṇava regulative principles, one must be initiated as a brāhmaṇa. The Hari-bhakti-vilāsa (2.6) quotes the following injunction from the Viṣṇu-yāmala:
adīkṣitasya vāmoru
kṛtaṁ sarvaṁ nirarthakam
paśu-yonim avāpnoti
dīkṣā-virahito janaḥ
“Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, all his devotional activities are useless. A person who is not properly initiated can descend again into the animal species.”
Hari-bhakti-vilāsa (2.10) further quotes:
ato guruṁ praṇamyaivaṁ
sarva-svaṁ vinivedya ca
gṛhṇīyād vaiṣṇavaṁ mantraṁ
dīkṣā-pūrvaṁ vidhānataḥ
“It is the duty of every human being to surrender to a bona fide spiritual master. Giving him everything-body, mind and intelligence-one must take a Vaiṣṇava initiation from him.”
The Bhakti-sandarbha (298) gives the following quotation from the Tattva-sāgara:
yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti
kāsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ
tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena
dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām
“By chemical manipulation, bell metal is turned into gold when touched by mercury; similarly, when a person is properly initiated, he can acquire the qualities of a brāhmaṇa.”
The Hari-bhakti-vilāsa (17.11,12) in discussing the puraścaryā process, quotes the following verses from Agastya-saṁhitā:
pūjā traikālikī nityaṁ
japas tarpaṇam eva ca
homo brāhmaṇa-bhuktiś ca
puraścaraṇam ucyate
guror labdhasya mantrasya
prasādena yathā-vidhi
pañcāṅgopāsanā-siddhyai
puraś caitad vidhīyate
“In the morning, afternoon and evening, one should worship the Deity, chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, offer oblations, perform a fire sacrifice, and feed the brāhmaṇas. These five activities constitute puraścaryā. To attain full success when taking initiation from the spiritual master, one should first perform these puraścaryā processes.“
The word puraḥ means “before” and caryā means “activities.” Due to the necessity of these activities, we do not immediately initiate disciples in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. For six months, a candidate for initiation must first attend ārati and classes in the śāstras, practice the regulative principles and associate with other devotees. When one is actually advanced in the puraścaryā-vidhi, he is recommended by the local temple president for initiation. It is not that anyone can be suddenly initiated without meeting the requirements. When one is further advanced by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra sixteen rounds daily, following the regulative principles and attending classes, he receives the sacred thread (brahminical recognition) after the second six months.
In the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa (17.4,5,7) it is stated:
vinā yena na siddhaḥ syān
mantro varṣa-śatair api
kṛtena yena labhate
sādhako vāñchitaṁ phalam
puraścaraṇa-sampanno
mantro hi phala-dhāyakaḥ
ataḥ puraṣkriyāṁ kuryāt
mantravit siddhi-kaṅksayā
puraṣkriyā hi mantrāṇāṁ
pradhānaṁ vīryam ucyate
vīrya-hīno yathā dehī
sarva-karmasu na kṣamaḥ
puraścaraṇa-hīno hi
tathā mantraḥ prakīrtitaḥ
“Without performing the puraścaryā activities, one cannot become perfect even by chanting this mantra for hundreds of years. However, one who has undergone the puraścaryā-vidhi process can attain success very easily.If one wishes to perfect his initiation, he must first undergo the puraścaryā activities.The puraścaryā process is the life-force by which one is successful in chanting the mantra. Without the life-force, one cannot do anything; similarly, without the life force of puraścaryā-vidhi, no mantra can be perfected.”
In his Bhakti-sandarbha (283), Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī states:
yadyapi śrī-bhāgavata-mate pañcarātrādi-vat arcana-mārgasya āvaśyakatvaṁ nāsti, tad vināpi śaraṇāpattyādīnām ekatareṇāpi puruṣārtha-siddher abhihitatvāt, tathāpi śrī-nāradādi-vartmānusaradbhiḥ śrī-bhagavatā saha sambandha-viśeṣaṁ dīkṣā-vidhānena śrī-guru-caraṇa-sampāditaṁ cikīrṣadbhiḥ kṛtāyāṁ dīkṣāyām arcanam avaśyaṁ kriyetaiva.
Of similar importance is dīkṣā, which is explained as follows in Bhakti-sandarbha (284):
yadyapi svarūpato nāsti, tathāpi prāyaḥ svabhāvato dehādi-sambandhena kardaya-śīlānāṁ vikṣipta-cittānāṁ janānāṁ tat-tat-saṅkocī-karaṇāya śrīmad-ṛṣi-prabhṛtibhir atrārcana-mārge kvacit kvacit kācit kācin maryādā sthāpitāsti.
Similarly in the Rāmārcana-candrikā it is stated:
vinaiva dīkṣāṁ viprendra
puraścaryāṁ vinaiva hi
vinaiva nyāsa-vidhinā
japa-mātreṇa siddhidā
In other words, the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is so powerful that it does not depend on official initiation, but if one is initiated and engages in pañcarātra-vidhi (Deity worship), his Kṛṣṇa consciousness will awaken very soon, and his identification with the material world will be vanquished. The more one is freed from material identification, the more one can realize that the spirit soul is qualitatively as good as the Supreme Soul. At such a time, when one is situated on the absolute platform, he can understand that the holy name of the Lord and the Lord Himself are identical. At that stage of realization, the holy name of the Lord, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, cannot be identified with any material sound. If one accepts the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra as a material vibration, he falls down. One should worship and chant the holy name of the Lord by accepting it as the Lord Himself. One should therefore be initiated properly according to revealed scriptures under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master. Although chanting the holy name is good for both the conditioned and liberated soul, it is especially beneficial to the conditioned soul because by chanting it one is liberated. When a person who chants the holy name is liberated, he attains the ultimate perfection by returning home, back to Godhead. In the words of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Ādi 7.73):
kṛṣṇa-mantra haite habe saṁsāra-mocana
kṛṣṇa-nāma haite pābe kṛṣṇera caraṇa
“Simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa one can obtain freedom from material existence. Indeed, simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra one will be able to see the lotus feet of the Lord.”
The offenseless chanting of the holy name does not depend on the initiation process. Although initiation may depend on puraścaryā or puraścaraṇa, the actual chanting of the holy name does not depend on puraścaryā-vidhi, or the regulative principles. If one chants the holy name once without committing an offense, he attains all success. During the chanting of the holy name, the tongue must work. Simply by chanting the holy name, one is immediately delivered. The tongue is sevonmukha-jihvā-it is controlled by service. One whose tongue is engaged in tasting material things and also talking about them cannot use the tongue for absolute realization.
ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi
na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
According to Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Madhya 17.134):
ataeva kṛṣṇera ‘nāma’, ‘deha’, ‘vilāsa’
prākṛtendriya-grāhya nahe, haya sva-prakāśa
“With these material senses, one cannot understand the transcendental holy name of the Lord or His form, activities and pastimes. However, when one actually engages in devotional service, utilizing the tongue, the Lord is revealed.”
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/15/108