Mauritius Oct 5 1975 conversations
Brāhmaṇa does not go to construct big, big house.He simply constructs his character,
And… how the Brittish destroyed the vedic culture in India so this idea of simple living is now considered –primitive…
Guest (3) (Indian man): Car is a necessity, Swamijī, don’t you think so? Car is a necessity.
Prabhupāda:Not necessary. What is the use of car? If you locate yourself to get everything, your necessity, then where is the use of car? If you require car, you have a bullock cart. That’s all.Why should you hanker after petrol, mobile (Mobil?) oil, machine, this, that, so many things. Why?
Guest (3): Yes, but don’t you think that it would be impossible for you to come mostly?
Prabhupāda: No, no. So long it is not available, we must take the best advantage. That is another thing.But gradually we shall develop a society that all these unnecessary rubbish things should be rejected. That is the idea.Or those who are interested, let them manufacture car; we take advantage. We don’t bother ourself how to manufacture car.Ajāgara-vṛtti. Ajāgara-vṛtti, the idea is… Ajāgara means the snake. So a mouse makes a hole in the field to live very peacefully.So, and he enters the hole, and a snake gets the information and he comes, enters the hole. He eats the snake… The snake eats the mouse and lives peacefully. So let this rascal manufacture motorcar. When we require, we take from them and ride away. We are not going to manufacture.There will be some rascals. Let them do that, mouse. We enter as snake. (laughter) That’s all.We are doing that. We are doing that. I did not manufacture this house,but somebody, some mouse, has done. (laughter) And we have entered it, that’s all. That’s all. This is going on all over the world.You know George Harrison? He has earned money with so great hard labor, and he has given us a house in London, fifty-five lakhs’ worth.Another boy, Alfred Ford, he’s the great grandson of Mr. Henry Ford. He has given. He is giving still money.He is prepared with all his money. So those who are after money, material things, we have to induce them that “Spend for me,” that’s all, and let him earn. So far we are concerned, we shall live very simple life, simply in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is brāhmaṇa.Brāhmaṇa does not go to construct big, big house.He simply constructs his character,and the other kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, they offer him, “Please come here and sit down.” Therefore the division is…One who is unable to become a brāhmaṇa, let him become kṣatriya. If he cannot become kṣatriya, let him become a vaiśya. Otherwise let him remain a śūdra. But there should be ideal class. So we are trying to create an ideal society of brāhmaṇas.Then people will be benefited. And if everyone is śūdra, rascal, then what people will be benefited? They do not know how to live. The brāhmaṇas will give idea, “Live like this. You will be happy.”
Oct 13 1975 Durban morning walk
Prabhupāda: How long they can stay in the water?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If it’s warm weather they can stay all day.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the cold weather, a few hours. They put on these black suits made out of a certain fabric—it’s called a wet suit—and they are able to stay in the water much longer. It insulates, insulates the body from the cold water.
Prabhupāda: Going for surfing?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These gentlemen? No, I don’t think so. These young boys are. (break) surf, we tell them, “Yes, we surf in the ocean of bhakti-rasa.”
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. (break)karma bandha phasa: one after another. Asate vilāsa: material enjoyment means implicated in unnecessary activities. If people are satisfied, plain living, then these things are not necessary: go into the ocean, find out oil, then bring it in the port, then distribute it, so many, one after another. That, this kind of civilization, they think it is advanced. And to live very plainly, minimizing this unnecessary activity, they think it is not civilization.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Primitive.
Prabhupāda: Primitive, yes.But primitive meat-eating is continued. That is not to be stopped, primitive drinking and meat-eating.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it’s not working in India today. Although theoretically it’s perfect, practically it’s not working.
Prabhupāda:No. Practically, because you[the Brittish] have preached your culture in India; therefore they[the Indians]have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that “If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them,” so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization.And because they were on the governing power, they could do it.Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position.Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.
Prabhupāda:In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tea?
Prabhupāda:Yes. Nobody would drink tea, no family. We have seen it.And for drinking, for drinking tea, drinking wine, regular propaganda was done.There was a tea assess(?) (tea sets?) committee. Men these foreigners, they began to grow tea in India in the beginning for exporting to Europe and America� Later on, they began to pay some tax to the government. That was known as “tea assess(?) committee.” The tea assess(?) committee,in order to popularize drinking tea, they used to hold stall, just like here in park and public places, and they would prepare very tasty tea and distribute free.
Note-just like now these demoniac governments of the world are distributing this poisonous “vaccine” for free)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Free.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, “If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved,” and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphletand giving free.Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: “Oh, it is very nice.” Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda.And culturally, in our school days they wrote One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England’s Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sati rite.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That “Later on, after the death of husband in some places the wife was forced to go to the fire, so the Britishers stopped it. And they introduced railway for going to the pilgrims and so many, and they constructed bridges to make easy to go from one country to another.” And people took it very seriously, that British government is very nice.And they were publishing in outside country that “India is uncivilized. We are making them civilized. And as soon as they are civilized, then we hand over the charge to them. That is our noble mission.” And they were exploiting.All raw materials was being taken awayand the necessities of India, especially cloth, was being supplied.And the local weavers, their hands cut off.So many thing they, tainting And everything bad. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru. He became a first-class victim.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: First-class?
Prabhupāda:Victim of European propaganda. He used to take “Anything Indian, bad. Anything Indian, bad.” Notonly he. Later on, all the so-called educated persons, they took it for granted that “Whatever is done in London, that is first-class, and whatever is Indian original, that is all bad.” And they controlled the native princes. So many things. It is a big history, how they killed India’s original culture. And then Hindu-Muslim riots, friction, fighting between Hindus and Muslims and dividing them.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said that the British instigated the Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How did they do that?
Prabhupāda: Oh, youNowadays you pay somebody, and he will do anything. So they appointed this Jhinna.He found that he is a very, intelligent lawyer. He was in the Congress. So there was dissension. There must be. So once this Jhinna was to be the president of the Congress, and the Patel, he frustrated. So Jhinna became angry, and at this moment the Britishers took it. He was a very intelligent barrister. So he instigated that,“You form a party, Muslim league. And whatever money is required for propaganda, we shall pay.” So regular subscription was raised from all big, big British companies, mercantile, to pay him: “Whatever money, you organize the Muslims against the Hindus.” And he did it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jhinna, he was Muslim.
Prabhupāda:He was neither Muslim nor Hindu.He was an intelligent barrister coming from the His father, means not real father, his father was Parsi, and he kept one Mohammedan girl. So the Jhinna is the issue of this (to passerby) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
…Prabhupāda: “So if you make propaganda and pay money to go against the Hindus and incite them”—gradually it developed.And the money was being paid by the Britishers.And he saw that money is coming.He had no feeling, national or He wanted money, that’s all. For money you can purchase anything nowadays.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did the British build all so many railroads?
Prabhupāda:For drawing raw materials from villages and bring it to the Calcutta, Bombay port and export to their country because their country does not produce anything.They’re starving.Still England, London, is maintained by importing goods from Africa, India, here, there. They have no food there. They can grow some potato, maybe Potato only,That was the reason of expanding their empire. They had no food at home, England. They were manufacturing cotton cloth. That cotton was not grown in their country. It was brought from Egypt. They manipulated things in such a way. In America also they wanted to do that, but Americans, just understanding, separated, George Washington. In America I have heard that each family was to maintain a British soldier. You know that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn’t know that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they brought tea from India and other places and sell it in America.Their whole policy was they exploit the whole world and bring money in London. That’s all. And one who will do that, he will be honored by the state, given Earl of some small village. It has no value.Earl of this whole, this man, place, Lord of this. (laughter)A few acres of land and he is Lord of Chelmsford. And they will be given big, big post, governor, viceroy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did Nehru, though He was so closely associated with Gandhi, and Gandhi was for getting the foreign products out.Why did Nehru go so much against that policy? Why did Nehru?
Prabhupāda: No, Nehru, he was searching after some big post. That’s all. All these political agitators, they want the big post, that’s all. You give them big post, and they will be satisfied. They will no more agitate. Political agitators means they want some prize post from the government. That’s all. Make them some minister, and they will be no more agitator.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But he is considered to be very religious man in the eyes of the masses.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nehru.
Prabhupāda: Nehru?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I know one Gujarati school, they have a book. And in the book it is taught that Gandhi, Nehru
Prabhupāda:That is propaganda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda:That is propaganda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) in the last fifty years or so that especially that the Indian culture has been squashed and perverted by the British.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because of mass communication, Prabhupada? Is that because of mass communication?
Prabhupāda: Mass communication or no
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Radio, and things like this.
Prabhupāda:Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything.(break)Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India’s basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the śūdras, less intelligent class of men, less than śūdras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you’ll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the villages?
Prabhupāda:Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India’s civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages.In the evening there would be bhdgavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas,and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause)So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:Hate everything Indian.
Prabhupāda:Yes. That was the policy of education.So as soon as one became graduate and educated, he began to hate everything Indian original, and if he would get some clerk’s business, service in some office, and his life is successful. That is still going on. So our car is here?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It’s just up here, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupāda:The brāhmaṇa became by caste brāhmaṇa. He will do everything nonsense and still, he remains a brāhmaṇa. But you can introduce the original Vedic culture in this Europe and America. You have understood. You can do it. By this material civilization they will never be happy, and it is risky.That they do not know. They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. So irresponsibly Or just likethese elderly persons, how they are wasting time.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:Just sitting on the beach.
Prabhupāda:Yes. Not only sitting, they have no other engagement. They do not know how human life should be utilized. They do not know. They are simply taking consideration of the body, running or skating or this or that, but they have no other engagement. They do not believe that there is soul and that soul’s business is first business. They do not know that, neither they do accept it. They are under nature’s law, very simply explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. By nature’s law you have to change your body.It is evident. Still, they will not believe.We’re changing body every moment, and they will say, big, big professors, that after the body is finished, everything is finished. This is ajñāna. And that is going on as education, whole world.“It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss.” The whole world is in ignorance, so we are giving them wise instruction.They are thinking, “These people are crazy men.” That’s all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:How were the leaders, though, of India so weak when the British first occupied that they allowed this all to take place?
Prabhupāda:There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, “Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That’s all.”When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. “It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu.” But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate.Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.
Prabhupāda:No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism.Not all, some of them.But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that “Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair.” So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling.So “Whatever tax is due we shall pay.Let us do our own business.” That was India’s attitude.They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (to driver) Go down this street, Prabhu.
Prabhupāda: Nationalism was unknown to India. They never thought.
Bhargava: allow the Muslims to enter and do so much damage to the Vedic culture?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhargava:Why did Kṛṣṇa allow the Muslims to enter and do so much damage to the
Prabhupāda:Kṛṣṇa is your father’s servant that you do something wrong and Kṛṣṇa has to check it? Is your Kṛṣṇa your father’s servant? Then why do you ask this question? If you allow somebody to cut your head, has Kṛṣṇa to come to save you? Why do you ask this nonsense question?You are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Samo ’haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu.If you cut your own head, what Kṛṣṇa will do?In the same term, nationalism, as Vedic culture is Kṛṣṇa’s national affair, your disease is there. Why Kṛṣṇa will come to save the Vedic culture? What business He has got?If you are spoiling it, then why Kṛṣṇa will come? Spoil, and suffer. (break) the same question in a different way, “Why India? Why Kṛṣṇa?” as if Kṛṣṇa is Indian. Kṛṣṇa is Indian? Then why do you ask this question, that “Kṛṣṇa will come to save India’s culture?”
Bhargava: Not the Indian culture but the Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa’s culture.
Prabhupāda: Vedic culture, He has given, Bhagavad-gītā. Why don’t you accept it? You don’t accept; then suffer. He has given His instruction. The government gives you the law. Now, when you violate, the government will come to stop you? You violate and suffer. Why do you expect that “When I violate the laws, the government men will come and stop me?” Why do you expect like that? Eh? The government can give you the law book. You consult and do accordingly. You’ll be happy. And if you don’t, against, the government man is not coming to stop you. You do and suffer.Kṛṣṇa says, “Whenever there is discrepancy, I come.” That is general, not for India. Vedic culture is not for India. It is for everyone.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It’s just that people have taken India as a model of our philosophy, and sometimes people judge our philosophy by India’s practical application.
Prabhupāda: That is aThat is a fact. India was practically following the Vedic culture. That’s a fact. But now they have given up, so what Kṛṣṇa can do?They have been victimized. So if you give up your own culture
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But this propaganda is going on even here, that anything which is Indian is inferior, and anything which is European is good.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the propaganda always. That is going on. That I already explained, that this was the propaganda of the Britishers, “Anything Indian is bad.”You see, they wanted to stop our Ratha-yātrā in London as soon as they saw that it is becoming popular. Even in India the government doesn’t want that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should go ahead. It is the demonic principle—Kṛṣṇa should be cut down. That is the way of demonic civilization. Stop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we are preaching, “No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating.” Do you think people like it?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda:Everyone is against this movement. So who is coming to save us? Nobody is coming. Kṛṣṇa is saving. Otherwise it would have been stopped long, long ago. I was thinking that “As soon as I shall propose all these things, immediately these American people will ask me to go back home. Instead of go back to Godhead, “You go back to India.” (laughter)So it is Kṛṣṇa’s kindness that you, a few boys and girls, have accepted this principle. Otherwise who likes this? Nobody likes. Nobody likes. Lord Zetland flatly said, “Oh, it is impossible.” This is the life and soul of the modem civilization. just see the advertisement-sex. You see, illicit sex. Who would like our movement? Nobody likes. What is this picture means? Sex, that’s all. So many advertise, wine advertisement, meat-eating, gambling—everything. The modern life is going on the basis of these four principles of sinful life, and we want to stop it. Nobody likes it. Still, we are selling so many books and people are hearing us (break)
Some Conclusions—WOW— that was quite a summary of the recent history of India due to the Brittish influence, which he says is still going up to the present with England trying to stop our Ratha Yatra festival in London due to it becomming so popular.
There are two separate quotes here in this article. The first one Prabhupada is explaining why thebrahmana is not interested in constructing so many things-only his character,.But the karmis areonly interested in these thingsas if these things will make one happy. So the western world countries are highly mechanized and they continue to make some new machine for every facet of our lives. For example– Do we really need electronic locks for our homes that is set off by your cell phone? Whats wrong with the old fashioned key which has worked for thousands of years? Etc etc etc…Is radar on the new cars for 360 degrees reallly going to save you from an accident? This list is endless….
Judge by the result-how has life become better for the average Indian these days? Most of them dont want to live in the villages because they have taken the bait of the western countries lure for sense gratification. As soon as one loses sight of the real goal of life, namely to get out of here and go back to Godhead, then instead, everything else under the sun becomes interesting to that person.
A local American friend of mine , who worked for ATT was one of the first cell phone engineers to go to India and help set up cellphone towers. He noticed while high up on his poles that below him in the squalor of Calcutta and other cities, people were living in cardboard box “homes” yet they all had a TV set. So because the Brittish destroyed the vedic culture of simple living high thinking these same people in the cities who formerly used to listen to Bhagavat Katha at night after work, now were watching mundane TV instead.
Therefore the real conclusion of this Krsna Consciousness movement is to rescue those souls who still have enough common sense left to understand what Prabhupada brought to us.
He gives the nice example of the snake entering the hole that the mouse constructed and eating him and living there insead of the mouse. So our principle should be the same-we are not going to completely renovate this modern demoniac civilization, but we can use what they have worked so hard to create and use those facilities to inject this Vedic culture into their adled brains.
Therefore again, Srila Prabhupada’s second phase for this movement was to introduce rural living where people would be growing their own food supply and when one does that then they are basically immune to all the ups and downs of the karmis world .
How is that possible? Simply because we dont live with them and basically most if not all our necessities are coming from mother earth and not them. Its like having an umbrella to protect you from the constant rain of kali yuga going on outside. Just like when Krsna lifted Govardhana hill to protect His devotees while all hell was coming down outside.
Those devotees who are actually intelligent will take this good advice Prabhupada has given to us and make the proper steps to implement it into their lives. Or, the other alternative is to end up like the millions od displaced Indians who now have nothing-but their TV set.
Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
