Hare Krsna to all

Pranams

All glories to Prabhupada

We sent out an email recently  by Bhaktivinode Thakur , detailing the conditions upon which the soul enters this world and therefore material consciousness. This began with the threadlike false ego, then intelligence, then mind, and finally the other senses so that eventually one is fully  in the bodily or material concept of life.

In this conversation with Srila Prabhupada , he tells us how one individual soul co-inhabits and controls one body in the midst of millions of other souls in various cells.

He also describes how we can only act with our senses if “conditions” are favorable for them to act. Example-the eyes need light to work-that is a condition, and similarly for all the other senses. So our entire existence within this body is conditional upon other things. This means we are not free to do anything, without higher sanction.   And the more we become free of these “conditions” the more we can approach that which is  “Truth”-or, reality distinguished from illusion.

In the next talk Srila Prabhupada explains non conditioned life-spiritual life in the spiritual world and how so many souls can live within different forms of life, like flowers, trees, plants water, earth, etc and serve Krsna in that way.

Hari bol

Damaghosa das

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740714mw.la                 Conversations
Svarupa Damodara: We were discussing that in all the living bodies, we have these innumerable cells, living cells. And in these cells… We were just discussing whether the Paramatma and the jivatma is still there even in the living cells.  Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.  Svarupa Damodara: It is. It is there. So actually our body’s a combination of these so many living entities.  Prabhupada: Atoms, yes. Why not? The every living entity is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of a hair. So many hairs are there. And that is one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair. Where is the difficulty.
Bali Mardana: So there is one jivatma who’s in control of the body. The others are subservient.
Prabhupada: Yes. Jivatma is everywhere. But you have got your own field. Just like for agricultural purpose you have got a big field, but there are so many millions of microbes and…
Bali Mardana: Yes.
Prabhupada: But it is your field. Not that when you go out of the field one of them becomes you. No, that is not. That is individuality. When you leave, you leave your field. That’s all.

Bali Mardana: So when we leave the field, then the other cells in the body also leave their field.
Prabhupada: Yes, therefore the germs come out as soon as it is proper time. So these nonsense, they do not know that, that the… Creating life, the ingredients… If they say that material combination makes life, so material combination is there already. Why the, that man is not coming? That is… He’s individual, and they are also individual. I have got my field. I am individual. I leave it. But because there are so many other microbes, they will come as me. No, that is not possible.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, yes, but temporarily, I cannot live without them.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: I cannot live in my body without them.

Prabhupada: Without them… You cannot live with this material body without so many conditions. And that is also one of the conditions. You cannot live. Any condition, little disturbed… You become diseased; you become disturbed. So therefore it is called conditional life. You simply live here on condition. And spiritual life means nocondition. If the condition is favorable, then your senses will act. Otherwise you have got useless senses. If there is light, then you can see. You can become proud of your eyes. “Can you show me God?” And what you can see, rascal? If God gives you light, then you can see.  You see under condition. And still, he’s very proud of his eyes. “Can you show me God?” This is going on. Rascal, what you can see? So we are conditioned. And still, we are searching out the truth. What is your truth? You are conditioned.
Bali Mardana: So they only end up with a conditioned truth, a relative truth.
Prabhupada: Yes. The more you are not conditioned, the more your finding out truth is perfect. But it is not possible for you to become completely unconditioned. That is not possible. That is mukta purusa, liberated. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the person who is not conditioned. That is perfect knowledge. And one who is conditioned, what is the value of his giving knowledge? So therefore we don’t accept any knowledge from the conditioned souls. Conditioned soul is imperfect by the four deficiencies. Bhrama, pramada… He must commit mistake. So what is the value of his knowledge? There is no value. We take knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is unconditioned. There is a verse in the Srimad-Bhagavata: esad isanam isasya. That is God. God means He becomes, He comes within this material world, but He’s not conditioned. That is Krsna.
Bali Mardana: And His representative.
Prabhupada: Yes. The whole thing is managed by the law of gravitation, but when Krsna lifted the hill, there was no weight. He’s not conditioned by the law of gravity. He can lift up. We cannot do because we are conditioned. And when they cannot understand God’s inconceivable power, they think it is all mythology. Because he is a rascal, he thinks Krsna also rascal.
Bali Mardana: They try to put Krsna within the framework of their own…
Prabhupada: Yes. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam. Because Krsna is kindly become visible to our eyes, these rascals immediately take Him as one of us. By His kindness He’s coming to be visible by us, to listen Him, His instructions, but these mudhas will take Him as ordinary human being. Mudha nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam.
Svarupa Damodara: So the consciousness, my consciousness… The consciousness of those living cells are dependent on my consciousness.
Prabhupada: No, that consciousness is not developed. It is not equal to your consciousness. Just like a child’s consciousness is not equal to your consciousness because he’s not yet developed, similarly, this human life is the full-fledged… Not full-fledged. Almost full demonstration of consciousness. We have to utilize it for higher understanding. From material conditions, the consciousness develops. On account of loss of consciousness, they become godless. So it
requires time. So this Hare Krsna movement is to help them to develop consciousness very quickly. Yes. Otherwise, it will take millions of years. Manusyanam sahasresu kascit yatati siddhaye. We are helping
people to develop that original consciousness very quickly. (break)

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750520SB.MEL                   Lectures
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, you were saying that because the body has arms and legs, then the coat has a similar shape. Then does the spirit soul that’s within our body have arms and legs like that?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (1): Would the spirit soul that is within, say, a cow’s body,
is in a different shape?
Prabhupada: Yes. It has got also legs. But the shape has taken according to his desire. Every animal has got these four things. Just like bird, it has got two wings, two legs. The animal has got four legs. And the man has got two hands, two legs. So the same parts of the body, they are appearing in a different type. But the four limbs of the body are there. Hm?
Devotee (2): Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?
Madhudvisa: The question is that whether the eternal form of the
spirit soul is a human form or is it…
Prabhupada: Yes, human form. God is also human form. “Man is made after the shape of God.” I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs.

Hari-sauri: How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?

Prabhupada: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not
the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul.
Hari-sauri: They are covered in the spiritual world?
Madhudvisa: He is asking if they were actually covered in the
spiritual world as well.
Prabhupada: Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some  devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that “As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna,”
he becomes flower, voluntarily. And he can change his…, from flowerto human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham. That is Krsna’s all-powerfulness, spiritual life.