By Bhakta Alex

Myth: Srila Prabhupada said, “He becomes his disciple, of my disciple.”

Amazingly, one anti-ritvik proponent wrote that the audio recording of the conversation makes it clear that Srila Prabhupada supposedly said, “He becomes his disciple, of my disciple.”  

But Srila Prabhupada says on the tape, “He becomes dis… disciple of my disciple.” (See: https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/770528mevrn/ – 15:48)

Not “his disciple”, but “dis… disciple”.

a) “Dis…” can clearly be heard from the official audio recording.

b) The above anti-ritvik myth makes Srila Prabhupada’s sentence grammatically incorrect.

c) It also contradicts other sections of May 28th conversation, July 9th directive, Srila Prabhupada’s last will, etc.  

Thus, Srila Prabhupada said here not “his disciple”, but “dis… disciple”. Therefore, even the official VedaBase transcript doesn’t say “his disciple” at this place, but just “disciple“. “Dis…” is not even mentioned in the VedaBase (although we suggest to add it in the text) since it bears no decisive meaning, being just a part of the word Srila Prabhupada immediately pronounces in full. Anyway, the point is Srila Prabhupada said that disciple of his disciple would be possible “when” he orders some of his disciple to become (initiating) guru. No such order- no new diksa gurus– no disciple of his disciple- he remains the guru who is initiating new disciples via officiating priests/ritviks. So, this part, again, provides no proof for anti-ritvik theories whatsoever.

Myth: Srila Prabhupada confirmed here that diksa gurus in ISKCON can be of two categories: (1) “regular guru” who is less qualified compared to (2) fully liberated uttama-adhikari guru.

There is Ajamila dasa’ paper “Regular or Ritvik”, published in maya-GBC’s ISKCON Journal, 1990. He proposes the idea of some “minimally qualified diksa gurus” that are never mentioned in Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. This interpretation of “regular” meaning “junior”, “non-liberated” initiating gurus is certainly wrong but is supported by anti-ritviks (see rebuttal to the myth “There are two kinds of diksa gurus in ISKCON”).

When Srila Prabhupada mentioned “regular guru” in May 28th 1977 conversation he didn’t tell there are two kinds of diksa gurus (great and small), he told that ritviks who do ceremonial aspect of initiations on behalf of the guru could be promoted to real initiating gurus (“when I order”, and that idea was repeated on April 22nd 1977 when Srila Prabhupada also pointed out that the “training must be complete”). That is, even theoretically ritviks could turn into new regular, real gurus if they are completely developed pure devotees, and before that there cannot be even the question of this promotion by authorization (“What is the use of producing some rascal guru?” – SP, April 22nd 1977). The idea that Srila Prabhupada authorized some junior, non-liberated diksa gurus in the May 28th 1977 conversation, is another outright fabrication. Deviated maya-ISKCON invents such far-off interpretations due to extreme thoughtlessness or, more often, just to desperately cover up their bitter reality which is not just somewhat less qualified bona fide gurus, but self-made pedophile “gurus”, porn-addicted “gurus”, admitted mental disorder “gurus” and their unauthorized, less than transcendental colleagues with self-exposing track-record.

Myth: In the last section of May 28th conversation Srila Prabhupada authorized diksa gurus and said that future disciples in ISKCON must be disciples of his disciples, his grand disciples.

Maya-GBC’s paper “Disciple of My Disciple” says, “the reason for this paper: to show that Srila Prabhupada unequivocally stated [on May 28th 1977] that after his departure his disciples should take up the responsibilities of full-fledged initiating spiritual masters.” (Foreword to Disciple of My Disciple, 1997)

This claim is simply false, which should be obvious to any sincere, unbiased person. Srila Prabhupada didn’t “unequivocally stated” what they claim, he didn’t authorize there and then any “full-fledged initiating spiritual masters” with their own disciples, Srila Prabhupada’s granddisciples. He answered he is going to appoint ritviks (which he did in July 1977), confirmed that future disciples would be his disciples (“your disciples”-“yes”), but when Tamal said “No” and continued to ask questions about these officiating acaryas/ritviks, Srila Prabhupada answered that they can only become diksa gurus with their own disciples/Srila Prabhupada’s granddisciples when he would order them to do so.

Otherwise, there is no such gurus/disciples of his disciple/his grand disciples. That’s all. But anti-ritviks don’t like this wise and simple arrangement made by the acarya. And then what can they possibly do? Just stubbornly ignore or twist the phrase “when I order”. Otherwise, if they just call a spade a spade, their whole fake system of so-called gurus, who we never authorized by Srila Prabhupada and proved its falsehood by their scandal-plagued history of endless falldowns, will fall apart, with all their vested interests.         

From a lecture “Attack on ISKCON” given by maya-ISKCON “guru” Indradymna Swami in Moscow on 28/11/98:

“The GBC asked Prabhupada that question, “What about when you leave?” And Prabhupada said, “They will be disciples of my disciples.” Okay? Just remember that one line. Prabhupada said, “They will be disciples of my disciples.” “My disciples will be regular gurus,” he said.” Now, in order to substantiate their speculation, they twist everything, and turn everything, and take references from other places.”

Comment by Krishnakant prabhu:

“Another bare-faced lie from IDS. Here is the question and answer:

Satsvarupa: Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.

Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?

Prabhupada: Rtvik, yes.

(Room conversation, May 28th, 1977)

Notice the answer for what will happen “when you leave” is not “they will be disciples of my disciples” but “they will be ritvik”.

IDS does exactly what he claims we do: he twists everything and takes references from other places – because at the END of the above conversation, Srila Prabhupada states:

“When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru, that’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple.”

But this order for “regular” or Diksa gurus was never given, and clearly the impending order for ritviks just quoted, is not the order for Diksa Gurus.” (From “An Error in Every Sentence: H. H. Indradyumna Swami”, source: https://iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/ids.htm)

Unfortunately, anti-ritvik rebels have turned a blind eye on the real content of the conversation and keep falsely indoctrinating other people to treat it likewise or hope they will not carefully hear/read the actual evidence.