April 7 1975 Mayapura
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that the children in the West, in the materialistic culture, they become hippies. They’ll say that at least they’ve had the choice, at least they were given…
Prabhupāda: Again, again you are bringing the same question, Eastern-Western.
Rāmeśvara: Materialistic.
Prabhupāda: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that… Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That’s all, this way and that way. That is called punaḥ punaś ca… And then you’ll take again to civilized way of… I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the… That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. This is anyathā rūpam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyāga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness. But he is so much attached to the material happiness that he cannot believe that there can be any happiness beyond this range. That is his ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore we call them mūḍha, rascals. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, “When you become spiritually realized, then prasannātmā, happiness.” Otherwise it is not possible. Material thing, you take this side or that side—there is no question of happiness. When you become brahma-bhūtaḥ, spiritually realized, then there is happiness, prasannātmā, immediately. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu [Bg. 18.54]. That is the…
Satsvarūpa: But should this be forced on people if they don’t want it?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Satsvarūpa: If a large section of the people don’t want spiritual life, that’s their…
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot force. That is not possible, because he has got independence. You cannot force. You can simply give him knowledge. Therefore to distribute knowledge is the best welfare activities, not this material so-called happiness, daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and this… They have got that. That will not make them happy. If you give them knowledge, then they will be really benefited. Otherwise not.
Brahmānanda: How do we give knowledge to the common masses of people?
Prabhupāda: Yes, by saṅkīrtana. By hearing, hearing, hearing—this is a medicinal process—the heart will be cleansed and they will take up the knowledge. Now the heart is unclean, so he cannot take up. So this is the medicine. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer… [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra wherever possible, and whoever will hear, he will gradually become cleansed.
Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. And then bhava-mahā-dāvāgni… Then his material pangs will be over. This is the only medicine. Therefore chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Some way or other, let them have the chance of hearing, and then it will act as medicine. Even he does not will, you chant, you let him hear by force, and he will be cured.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes you say only a very small percentage can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: But yesterday morning in your lecture you were saying it can expand to ten thousand, million, or ten million.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you take the proper way it can be increased.
Satsvarūpa: Is that just up to our preaching?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will depend on your purified preaching activities. If you again become materially victimized, then you cannot do it. If you remain on the spiritual platform, if you try, then it will increase. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. It will increase. As soon as there is any contemplation of sense gratification, then the spirit will be lost. Then instead of Christianity, it will be “Churchianity,” officially going to the church, doing nothing, and gradually nobody will go.
Rūpānuga: Like the Christians.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Christians… Now who are coming here, in so many temples? Nobody is coming. They have made it a business, “Oh, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s birthday, you come here.” And somebody will come, collect some money, and then there is no business—go away.
Jayādvaita: That requires our personal austerity.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayādvaita: That requires our personally being austere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And what is austerity? It is very simple thing. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu. If you continue devotional service to Lord Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, then automatically the effect of these austerities will become, janayaty āśu, very soon. Vairāgyam. Austerities means detachment to the material world. That is the result of austerity. So śāstra says janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Simply by executing devotional service to Vasudeva, that vairāgya, detachment, very soon arises. Come. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is very good engagement.
Some Conclusions— This is a very nice conversation with Prabhupada about what will happen if the bona fide Acarya comes and his disciples actually follow what he teaches. And what also happens if they deviate. First result is the whole world will be flooded with Krsna Prema, Second result is it all becomes “Churchianity” or having some temple or church or Mosque to go to and everyone (those who still have some religious sentiment) just goes for some “festival”- and then afterwards just goes home with the world remaining materialistic but thinking we church goers or temple goers are “religious” because we have done our “duty” .
So this materialistic mentality towards Dharma can and will be stopped if one hears from the bona fide spiritual master such as Srila Prabhupada. Even if we dont understand at first, simply by this process of continual hearing hearing hearing Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam our hearts will become cleansed and then able to finally understand and then take up real Dharma.
So I send these articles also to those I know who do not agree with much of their content. But our Acarya Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krsna Caitanya have said-to do it- and the good results will come.
Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
