Srila Prabhupada regarding what is “spiritual advancement”-and finding a “bona fide guru”
Every devotee knows or should know the definition of pure devotional service.
BG 7.16 purport…”One should render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa favorably and without desire for material profit or gain through fruitive activities or philosophical speculation. That is called pure devotional service.
“Unless one is under the shelter of a realized spiritual master, his understanding of the Supreme is simply foolishness” quote from TLC
LA July 13 1971—Prabhupāda: Unless one is prepared that “I am accepting somebody as my spiritual master. I must acceptwhatever he says,” if there is any doubt, that “I cannot accept his words verbatim,” then one should not accept him as spiritual master. That is hypocrisy
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Note-I placed these two very important quotes at the very beginning of this article because over time I have seen many devotee who just do not accept “verbatim” the words of their own guru-Srila Prabhupada. They speculate about this or that and then come to the wrong conclusions, and thereby fall eventually from the path of pure Bhakti yoga. Unless we fully understand these core concepts, we will gradually lose the bhakti lata bija, but “think” we are OK. Everything must be based and judged upon sastra sadhu and guru, otherwise the proper conclusions will evade us. The books are there so that we can know them and quote them. They are our road map thru Maya.
SB 3.27.20 : PURPORT :..The Bhāgavatam (10.14.4) says that if one gives up the auspicious path of devotional service and simply tries to know things by speculation, one wastes his valuable time (kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye). The result of such a labor of love is simply labor; there is no other result. The labor of speculation is ended only by exhaustion.
SB 3.32.32 : PURPORT :.. the processes of philosophical speculation and mystic yoga practice, have much trouble. After many, many years of much trouble, a yogī or wise philosopher may come to Him, but his path is very troublesome, whereas the path of devotional service is easy for everyone.
Adi 8.15 : PURPORT :,, Unfortunately, when such logicians take to this path without the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they remain on the platform of logic and argument and do not advance in spiritual life. However, if one is intelligent enough to apply his arguments and logic to the subtle understanding of the fundamental spiritual substance, he will be able to know that a poor fund of knowledge established on the basis of material logic cannot help one understand the Absolute Truth, which is beyond the reach of imperfect senses. The Mahābhārata therefore says: acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. (Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma-parva 5.22) How can that which is beyond the imagination or sensory speculation of mundane creatures be approached simply by logic? Logic and argument are very poor in spiritual strength and always imperfect when applied to spiritual understanding. By putting forward mundane logic one frequently comes to the wrong conclusion regarding the Absolute Truth, and as a result of such a conclusion one may fall down to accept a body like that of a jackal.
September 25, 1968 : 680925LE.SEA :…Tad viddhi praṇipātena. If you want to understand the spiritual science, then you have to approach to a person where you can completely surrender yourself. Because everyone is proud: “Oh, who can teach me? Why shall I go to a spiritual master? I know everything.” That is the general mentality. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā gives us direction that you should go to a person where you can fully surrender. So you have to find out a bona fide spiritual master where you can surrender your pride.
Now let us take a look at some valuable quotes which will establish what is actual spiritual advancement and what is proper initiation. Even if one has proper or bona fide initiation that is not the end of it. One must obey the guru, or spiritual master.
Vrndavana, India August 1967 Letter to: Devotee & Hamsaduta:
“One who understands and appreciates the disciplic succession is certainly advanced, and we should always be very careful to give full respect to those who have so carefully handled this Divine Fruit of transcendental knowledge before us. Even a slight change will spoil it. That is why I have always been so careful to give you only those things which I have heard from my Guru Maharaja .”
“One who understands and appreciates the disciplic succession is certainly advanced, and we should always be very careful to give full respect to those who have so carefully handled this Divine Fruit of transcendental knowledge before us. Even a slight change will spoil it. That is why I have always been so careful to give you only those things which I have heard from my Guru Maharaja .”
Letter to Dhruvananda 73 01 04
Now you are asking if Lord Jagannatha carries flute? Why this nonsense question? You are asking me so many concoctions and manufactured nonsense. Don’t bother my head in this way any more. From now on unless I order you do something change or in addition, go on with the usual standard way. You manufacture ideas and then I have to waste my time. I have given you everything already, there is no need for you to add anything or change anything. Why you are asking these things? Who has given you such freedom? Pujari should operate entirely under the supervision of temple president and GBC, not independently. The greatest danger to our movement will come when we manufacture and create our own process for worshiping the deities. So don’t ask any more new questions, whatever is going on, follow it just to the exact standard as I have given you, that’s all.
Now you are asking if Lord Jagannatha carries flute? Why this nonsense question? You are asking me so many concoctions and manufactured nonsense. Don’t bother my head in this way any more. From now on unless I order you do something change or in addition, go on with the usual standard way. You manufacture ideas and then I have to waste my time. I have given you everything already, there is no need for you to add anything or change anything. Why you are asking these things? Who has given you such freedom? Pujari should operate entirely under the supervision of temple president and GBC, not independently. The greatest danger to our movement will come when we manufacture and create our own process for worshiping the deities. So don’t ask any more new questions, whatever is going on, follow it just to the exact standard as I have given you, that’s all.
Adi 7.95-96-purport
A person who cannot keep his faith in the words of his spiritual master but acts independently never receives the authority to chant the holy name of the Lord. It is said in the Vedas (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.23): yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ
A person who cannot keep his faith in the words of his spiritual master but acts independently never receives the authority to chant the holy name of the Lord. It is said in the Vedas (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.23): yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ
“Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed.” This Vedic injunction is very important, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu supported it by His personal behavior.
Lectures : SB 1.8: Lectures : Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.44 — Los Angeles, May 6, 1973 :
.. So do not think that “We have made such nice, sumptuous plate for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa must eat.” No. There is no such thing, “must.” You cannot make Kṛṣṇa must. That is not possible. So Kṛṣṇa will see how much you have love for Him. Then He will accept. Otherwise He’ll reject. Therefore, it is forbidden, those who are nondevotee, those who are not initiated, those who are not chanting regularly, their offering to Kṛṣṇa will not be accepted. We must be very careful. We must know our position, whether I am sincerely following the principles of devotional service. Then Kṛṣṇa will accept. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. The real thing is bhakti. So either you offer Kṛṣṇa prayers or you offer foodstuff, everything must be along with bhakti, devotion, love. Then Kṛṣṇa will accept.
.. So do not think that “We have made such nice, sumptuous plate for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa must eat.” No. There is no such thing, “must.” You cannot make Kṛṣṇa must. That is not possible. So Kṛṣṇa will see how much you have love for Him. Then He will accept. Otherwise He’ll reject. Therefore, it is forbidden, those who are nondevotee, those who are not initiated, those who are not chanting regularly, their offering to Kṛṣṇa will not be accepted. We must be very careful. We must know our position, whether I am sincerely following the principles of devotional service. Then Kṛṣṇa will accept. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. The real thing is bhakti. So either you offer Kṛṣṇa prayers or you offer foodstuff, everything must be along with bhakti, devotion, love. Then Kṛṣṇa will accept.
Note-we should be very careful here in regard to eating what others may consider “Krsna Prasadam”. If all or even one of the conditions Prabhupada mentions above are there, then Krsna will NOT accept that offering.
BG 3.13-The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin.
February 25, 1977, Māyāpura Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG
Rāmeśvara: Just like this Alice Coltrane. She has done her small part. She made this record album with Govinda Jaya Jaya and Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: Just like this Alice Coltrane. She has done her small part. She made this record album with Govinda Jaya Jaya and Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is… That will be a good thing. But when he (she) does it properly it will be more effective, because there is… If one does not chant in the process, then gradually it degrades. The offense will increase. There is chance.
Brahmānanda: We want to bring them to the process.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ultimate. That is stated by Rūpa Gosvāmī,
yena tena prakāreṇa / manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet
sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur / etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ
sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur / etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ
that “Somehow or other, bring him to chant Kṛṣṇa or to become little Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, when he’s little purified, then the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ…” He’s not rejecting the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Vidhi-niṣedhāḥ means regulative principles. It is not rejected, that… But when he’s a little purified, this vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. Just like one… First of all let him become rich, get some money. And then, when he has got money, he can keep some servant, some assistant, some secretaries, like that. First of all earn money.
Rāmeśvara: So one step at a time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But organized business means there must be so many men, secretary, manager. That is regulated. So in the beginning, “All right, bring some money somehow. Then I shall…” So you cannot reject this organization because he’s chanting. Then what is the use of writing so many books, the nāma-aparādha and other discussions, if anyone can chant?
Rāmeśvara: So it definitely has to lead them to that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we must come to that point. In the beginning you may be very liberal: “All right, chant.” We do like that, and I have done it. There is no regulation. But that does not…, that it should be neglected. He should be given affirmed, “By simply, whimsically chanting this…” No, that is not.
Hari-śauri: Niyamāgraha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Don’t make it cheap. It has got a science. It has got a form.
Rāmeśvara: I’ve seen in some articles they have written to defend our society from the attack of deprogrammers, sometimes one argument they give is that meditation and chanting are being studied by scientists, and they are finding the effects to be good. Now…
Prabhupāda: Effect will be good. And if we do it properly it will be first class.
Rāmeśvara: Now, these scientists, they are studying Hare Kṛṣṇa meditation, but they’re also studying some other processes which are not authorized. And they are…
Prabhupāda: That is the defect.
Rāmeśvara: And they’re stating that in general, to meditate, to chant mantra, this is good, this is healthy for the mind.
Prabhupāda: That’s all right. The thing is that some way or other, if you are near the fire, you’ll get some heat, but there is a process how to take heat.
Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That you cannot reject. “Because I am getting little heat, it is sufficient,” that is sahajiyā.
Room Conversation — January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara : 770127rc.bhu :
Prabhupāda: And you must see that what you are doing, that is according to the principle which all other sādhus and devotees do. They have tilaka, and you say, “I have no tilaka.” That is not sādhu-mārgānu. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. They have kaṇṭhi. You say, “I can avoid it.” That is not sādhu-mārgānugamanam. So, from very beginning, if you disobey, then how you’ll make progress? Then?
Prabhupāda: And you must see that what you are doing, that is according to the principle which all other sādhus and devotees do. They have tilaka, and you say, “I have no tilaka.” That is not sādhu-mārgānu. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. They have kaṇṭhi. You say, “I can avoid it.” That is not sādhu-mārgānugamanam. So, from very beginning, if you disobey, then how you’ll make progress? Then?
Letter to: Satsvarupa — Delhi 6 October, 1967 : 67-10-06 :
Kirtanananda may be eager to address in the Harvard university but recently he has lost his link on account of disobedience. You sing every day morning that by the mercy of the Spiritual master one can please the Lord and one who has not pleased the spiritual master cannot have any access in the realm of Krishna Consciousness. Very recently Kirtanananda has developed a different consciousness of Maya which is called misuse of one’s minute independence offered by Krishna. By misuse of one’s independence one at once becomes a victim of Maya and thus he loses all importance in Krishna Consciousness. So it is my definite opinion that his lecture anywhere now will bear no spiritual sequence. He must rectify his mistake before he can play in our Society any important role. By lips he says that he is a surrendered soul but by action he is thinking differently.
Kirtanananda may be eager to address in the Harvard university but recently he has lost his link on account of disobedience. You sing every day morning that by the mercy of the Spiritual master one can please the Lord and one who has not pleased the spiritual master cannot have any access in the realm of Krishna Consciousness. Very recently Kirtanananda has developed a different consciousness of Maya which is called misuse of one’s minute independence offered by Krishna. By misuse of one’s independence one at once becomes a victim of Maya and thus he loses all importance in Krishna Consciousness. So it is my definite opinion that his lecture anywhere now will bear no spiritual sequence. He must rectify his mistake before he can play in our Society any important role. By lips he says that he is a surrendered soul but by action he is thinking differently.
Letter Brahmananda 67 10 14
“Swami Kirtanananda has returned to the United States and is causing quite a stir among the devotees. Following his suggestions, we have stopped wearing robes and have cut off our flags. He said these appurtenances are too strange-looking to outsiders and only make it more difficult for them to consider chanting Hare Krishna. Swami Kirtanananda has said we must avoid appearing to be Orientalists if we are to have 108 centers in the US.”
“Swami Kirtanananda has returned to the United States and is causing quite a stir among the devotees. Following his suggestions, we have stopped wearing robes and have cut off our flags. He said these appurtenances are too strange-looking to outsiders and only make it more difficult for them to consider chanting Hare Krishna. Swami Kirtanananda has said we must avoid appearing to be Orientalists if we are to have 108 centers in the US.”
This is very much disturbing to me & has caused me much pain. Please therefore stop Kirtanananda from making his mental concoctions. Do not be misled by him. I have never advised him to act like that. If he is causing such disturbances he should not be allowed to indulge in such nonsensical activities. I have already written you to inform you that somehow or other he has become crazy; otherwise he would not have disobeyed me to go directly to N.Y. For the time being he has cut all link with me, therefore any instruction given by him is unauthorized & should at once be rejected. He has no right to dictate as he has without my sanction. Whatever is to be done will be executed when I return. He is too much puffed-up nonsensically therefore you should copy this letter & forward to all centers that Kirtanananda has no right to dictate anything to the Society in this way. I am very sorry that he is exploiting his present position as a sannyasi.
Note-We see in the above letters to Satsvarupa and Brahmananda, Srila Prabhupada tells them and us that simply by disobedience to his order, Kirtanananda–“recently he has lost his link on account of disobedience”. So this Krsna Consciousness is totally based upon obedience to guru and God. If we concoct or deliberately disobey, then we have lost our lifeline to spiritual life and certainly going back to Godhead.
Letter to: Gargamuni — Delhi 23 September, 1967 : 67-09-23 :
I entrusted this matter to Kirtanananda but he has disobeyed which has given me a shock. Once he disobeyed my order and we lost $1200.00 in connection with Mr. Payne. This time he has again disobeyed me. If he sets such example in the Society it will be a great impediment. Obedience is the first law of discipline. We are thinking of a great world wide organization which is not possible to be executed if there is disobedience.
I entrusted this matter to Kirtanananda but he has disobeyed which has given me a shock. Once he disobeyed my order and we lost $1200.00 in connection with Mr. Payne. This time he has again disobeyed me. If he sets such example in the Society it will be a great impediment. Obedience is the first law of discipline. We are thinking of a great world wide organization which is not possible to be executed if there is disobedience.
SB 4.18.5-
A foolish person who manufactures his own ways and means through mental speculation and does not recognize the authority of the sages who lay down unimpeachable directions is simply unsuccessful again and again in his attempts.
A foolish person who manufactures his own ways and means through mental speculation and does not recognize the authority of the sages who lay down unimpeachable directions is simply unsuccessful again and again in his attempts.
PURPORT-At the present moment it has become fashionable to disobey the unimpeachable directions given by the ācāryas and liberated souls of the past. Presently people are so fallen that they cannot distinguish between a liberated soul and a conditioned soul. A conditioned soul is hampered by four defects: he is sure to commit mistakes, he is sure to become illusioned, he has a tendency to cheat others, and his senses are imperfect. Consequently we have to take direction from liberated persons. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement directly receives instructions from the Supreme Personality of Godhead via persons who are strictly following His instructions.
So how does one know if he or she is disobeying guru? Our behavioral actions and thoughts must be directed 100% by sastra sadhu and guru, otherwise we are in the La La land of Maya devi. And this Sastra must be the original unchanged sastra given to us by Srila Prabhupada.
REAL GURU OR BOGUS GURU?-ALL YOU WANTED TO KNOW–SP
1.accept a guru who is infallible
2.if you dont get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus.
3.if you dont find such a guru, that means Krsna is not pleased with you or you are not serious enough.
4. guru must be accepted from highest order-paramahamsa order
5. who has been cheated by bogus gurus? He says “practically everyone”
2.if you dont get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus.
3.if you dont find such a guru, that means Krsna is not pleased with you or you are not serious enough.
4. guru must be accepted from highest order-paramahamsa order
5. who has been cheated by bogus gurus? He says “practically everyone”
The second section deals with these points:
1. if one receives a mantra from a bogus guru-it has no effect
2.not only is this mantra useless, but your deity worship is the same
3.series of quotes which explain how the bogus guru AND his disciples go to hell
2.not only is this mantra useless, but your deity worship is the same
3.series of quotes which explain how the bogus guru AND his disciples go to hell
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761003SB.VRN Lectures 214022/530501
guru… Sisyas te ‘ham sadhi mam prapannam: “Now, Krsna, I accept You as my guru. Not as friend.” Because friendly talking is useless waste of time. He accepted Him as guru. When guru speaks, you cannot argue. That is not the process. You should accept a guru who is infallible. Otherwise it is useless. He accepted guru Krsna because Krsna is infallible. If we accept guru, a bogus guru, then it is no benefit. Guru means Krsna’s representative. Not that everyone can be guru.
guru… Sisyas te ‘ham sadhi mam prapannam: “Now, Krsna, I accept You as my guru. Not as friend.” Because friendly talking is useless waste of time. He accepted Him as guru. When guru speaks, you cannot argue. That is not the process. You should accept a guru who is infallible. Otherwise it is useless. He accepted guru Krsna because Krsna is infallible. If we accept guru, a bogus guru, then it is no benefit. Guru means Krsna’s representative. Not that everyone can be guru.
Note-What person today , accepting somebody besides Srila Prabhupada can say his “guru” -is infallible? This may be a big pill to swallow for a gross materialist, but it is a fundamental pillar in actual spiritual life. If God’s so called representative is not 100% God Conscious, or in other words, His bona fide representative (spiritual master),and has not been authorized as such by his guru, then we will find what Srila Prabhupada describes below for bogus gurus.
720911rc.arl Conversations32063/530501
Prabhupada: Just like Dhruva Maharaja.He was advised by his mother that “If you go to the forest you can see God.” So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Krsna sent him Narada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Krsna, then Krsna will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Krsna is not yet pleased, either you are not serious.
Prabhupada: Just like Dhruva Maharaja.He was advised by his mother that “If you go to the forest you can see God.” So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Krsna sent him Narada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Krsna, then Krsna will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Krsna is not yet pleased, either you are not serious.
720629rc.sdConversations331324/530501
Devotee: What determines, Srila Prabhupada, if one is serious or one is not serious? What makes one…
Devotee: What determines, Srila Prabhupada, if one is serious or one is not serious? What makes one…
Prabhupada: Well, this seriousness comes after many, many births. It is also not so easy. Rupa Gosvami says, tatra laulyam api mulyam ekalam janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate. He wrote a verse, krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam yadi kuto ‘pi labhyate: “The krsna-bhakti, Krsna consciousness, this thing, if you can purchase somewhere, just immediately purchase it.” Krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam: “Just purchase.” Yadi kuto ‘pi labhyate. First of all, if you want to purchase, the things must be available. Yadi kuto. Therefore kuto ‘pi, “If it is available, immediately purchase.” Then next question is, “What is the value? What is the price I have to pay?” Then he said, tatra laulyam ekalam mulyam, “Simply your serious eagerness to have it. That is the price.” “Oh, that I can have very easily.” “No.” Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate: “That laulyam, that seriousness, is not obtained after thousands of years’ pious activities.” It is so difficult. Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate. People are acting piously, but that kind of seriousness is not available even after executing pious activities for thousands of lives. So that seriousness is also very difficult, to become very serious that “In this life I shall finish my business and go home, back to home, back to Godhead.” Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate. Krsna says, “After many, many births, when actually one becomes in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me.”
761101SB.VRN Lectures 225162/530501
This is religion. Adau gurvasrayam. If you do not get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus. If you, by good fortune, if you get the association of a guru, qualified hamsa, paramahamsa… Paramahamsa guru means sannyasi’s last stage is paramahamsa. Kuticaka, bahudaka, parivrajakacarya, and paramahamsa, these are the different stages. When one takes sannyasa, he lives outside the village in a kuti, in a cottage, and the family members goes and delivers him the food, because he is not practiced. So in the beginning, he keeps up this association of neighborhood or family, but he is not practiced. He therefore lives outside the village, and if somebody gives some food, he eats. Then when he becomes experienced, then he does not accept food from one, either his own home or one home. He takes foodstuff from many homes: “Give me a little piece of capati.” So somebody gives half, because they are also not overburdened. If they have to deliver, so many sannyasis come, and sumptuous food, then how the grhastha will provide? Therefore though… They do not overburden. There may be other sannyasis, therefore little only. Madhupuri. The Gosvamis practiced this madhupuri in Vrndavana. They lived, but they would take little only from the house. This is called bahudaka. Then when he has practiced more, he travels all over the world, parivrajakacarya. And when he is fully experienced, then, in spiritual life and everything, then he is paramahamsa. So one must find out a guru who is paramahamsa. Neither kuticaka, nor bahudaka, nor parivrajakacarya. Paramahamsa. …. Then our strong desire to enjoy this material world in different way, that will be slackened. That is wanted. Thank you very much.
This is religion. Adau gurvasrayam. If you do not get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus. If you, by good fortune, if you get the association of a guru, qualified hamsa, paramahamsa… Paramahamsa guru means sannyasi’s last stage is paramahamsa. Kuticaka, bahudaka, parivrajakacarya, and paramahamsa, these are the different stages. When one takes sannyasa, he lives outside the village in a kuti, in a cottage, and the family members goes and delivers him the food, because he is not practiced. So in the beginning, he keeps up this association of neighborhood or family, but he is not practiced. He therefore lives outside the village, and if somebody gives some food, he eats. Then when he becomes experienced, then he does not accept food from one, either his own home or one home. He takes foodstuff from many homes: “Give me a little piece of capati.” So somebody gives half, because they are also not overburdened. If they have to deliver, so many sannyasis come, and sumptuous food, then how the grhastha will provide? Therefore though… They do not overburden. There may be other sannyasis, therefore little only. Madhupuri. The Gosvamis practiced this madhupuri in Vrndavana. They lived, but they would take little only from the house. This is called bahudaka. Then when he has practiced more, he travels all over the world, parivrajakacarya. And when he is fully experienced, then, in spiritual life and everything, then he is paramahamsa. So one must find out a guru who is paramahamsa. Neither kuticaka, nor bahudaka, nor parivrajakacarya. Paramahamsa. …. Then our strong desire to enjoy this material world in different way, that will be slackened. That is wanted. Thank you very much.
SSR 2 Choosing a Spiritual Master 182103/530501
Reporter: Have the real gurus like yourself ever tried to put a stop to the false gurus–that is, put pressure on them to put them out of business, so to speak?
Reporter: Have the real gurus like yourself ever tried to put a stop to the false gurus–that is, put pressure on them to put them out of business, so to speak?
Srila Prabhupada: No, that is not my purpose. I started my movement simply by chanting Hare Krsna. I chanted in New York in a place called Tompkins Square Park, and soon people began to come to me. In this way, the Krsna consciousness movement gradually developed. Many accepted, and many did not accept. Those who are fortunate have accepted.
Reporter: Don’t you feel that people are suspicious because of their experience with fake gurus? If you went to a quack dentist and he broke your tooth, you might be suspicious about going to another dentist.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Naturally, if you are cheated, you become suspicious. But this does not mean that if you are cheated once, you will always be cheated. You should find someone genuine. But to come to Krsna consciousness, you must be either very fortunate or well aware of this science. From the Bhagavad-gita we understand that the genuine seekers are very few:manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. Out of many millions of people, there may be only one who is interested in spiritual life. Generally, people are interested in eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. So how can we expect to find many followers? It is not difficult to notice that people have lost their spiritual interest. And almost all those who are actually interested are being cheated by so-called spiritualists.
Reporter: I wondered how many people you think might have been taken in by fake gurus.
Srila Prabhupada: Practically everyone. [Laughter.] There is no question of counting. Everyone.
Reporter: This would mean thousands of people, wouldn’t it?
Srila Prabhupada: Millions. Millions have been cheated, because they want to be cheated. God is omniscient. He can understand your desires. He is within your heart, and if you want to be cheated, God sends you a cheater.
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Note-Continuing along the way with exposing bogus gurus and their followers, we here below have a very conclusive statement by Srila Prabhupada where he clearly explains that if one has a bogus guru, then that persons “deity worship” is also bogus.
701223SB.SUR Lectures
Devotee (3): In regard to worshiping arca-vigraha form, you have explained that if one receives a mantra from a spiritual master who is not bona fide, that mantra has no effect. So I would like to ask if one is worshiping a Deity and his spiritual master is not bona fide, so that Deity cannot be considered the Supreme Lord?
Devotee (3): In regard to worshiping arca-vigraha form, you have explained that if one receives a mantra from a spiritual master who is not bona fide, that mantra has no effect. So I would like to ask if one is worshiping a Deity and his spiritual master is not bona fide, so that Deity cannot be considered the Supreme Lord?
Prabhupada: Well, first of all, thing is if the spiritual master is not bona fide, how his mantra can be bona fide? Your statement is contradictory. If you say the spiritual master is not bona fide, then how his mantra becomes bona fide? If he is bona fide, then his mantra is bona fide.
Devotee (3): Then why is he giving instruction to worship the Deity? If the spiritual master is not bona fide, then is the Deity also not bona fide? Prabhupada: I do not follow. What does he say? Tamala Krsna: His idea is that if one receives a mantra from a spiritual master, if the spiritual master is not bona fide…
Prabhupada: Then there is no question of mantra. There is no question of worshiping Deity. These are all bogus things. If you are not… Just like here is a young medical man. If he has not received instruction from a bona fide medical college, so what is the value of his medical, being… That is… What is called? What is the technical name?
Devotee (4): Quack.
Prabhupada: Quack! (laughter) (pronounces like “quark”)
Devotees: Quack.
Prabhupada: A quack is not a medical man, however he may show all red bottles, white bottles. There is a Bengali proverb, naj jal yac curi tini ei daktar.(?) One stethoscope, naj(?), and some bottles, jala, and talking all nonsense, he becomes a doctor. That means the quack doctor, not a… Qualified doctor, he knows what is what. So naj jal yac curi tini ei daktar(?). In Bengali they say. And mostly in villages they go on like that. But of course, they have got some experience. I know in Allahabad there was a doctor, Kabhir, a Dr. Kabhir. And because in my previous household life I was a chemist and druggist, I was supplying medicine, so he was my customer. So he had that… This Dr. Kabhir was a compounder. Later on he practiced. So he had very, very big prac… He was my biggest customer. He was purchasing medicine like anything. But he had experience. He learned from an experienced doctor. He cannot be called a bogus, because whatever he learned, he was… But generally, one who is not a bona fide doctor, he is called a quack. So anything, experience required, not that you have to go to the medical college. If you are trained under a bona fide doctor, then also you can get the quality of a doctor. Similarly, the whole thing is tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet. One should go to the bona fide spiritual master to learn this transcendental science.
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Follow bogus guru-you go to hell-
1) SB 1.19.37 P The Appearance of Sukadeva Gosvami Unless one is perfectly anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of decoration for a householder. Generally a fashionable materialist engages a so-called spiritual master without any profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt.
2) 2-12-14.Letter: Tusta Krsna As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will to go to hell, like blind men leading the blind.
3) SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati. Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.
4) Isopanisad Mantra 12: The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service-which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead-one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative ācāryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. They ignore the Vedic injunction ācāryopāsana-“One must worship the ācārya“-and Kṛṣṇa’s statement in the Bhagavad-gītā (4.2) evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession.” Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called ācāryas,but they do not even follow the principles of the ācāryas.
These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gītā that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). Śrī Īśopaniṣad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification.
SomeConclusions-
To summarize the above-Prabhupada starts by saying that one who properly appreciates and understands the disciplic succession is advanced because he gives all respect to those who have handed down this fruit of transcendental knowledge and that any change will spoil it.
One who loses faith in his guru (by disobeying his orders)never receives the authority to chant. And one who doesn’t chant in the regular way, Krsna will not accept his offering of bhoga or anything else.
Then in the conversation with Ramesvara he says if one doesn’t chant in the “process” it gradually degrades due to the offenses. He wants to bring all to the process which has form and is a science-there are many rules other than just chant Hare Krsna and be happy. Just to be by a fire and say I am getting heat is like saying I can do anything I want because I still am getting some “heat” by chanting Hare Krsna is- sahijiya mentality.
Kirtanananda lost his link to the param para due to his disobedience and thereby lost all importance. in the movement. By his lips he says one thing but by his actions he shows something else. He has cut off his link to Prabhupada and any instruction he gives should be rejected. These three letters were put in to show how disobedience cuts one off from the param para. And all this happens because it has become fashionable to ignore the faultless instructions of liberated souls.
The last section says we must accept a guru who is infallible, from the paramahamsa order and by whose instructions one will never make mistakes. And if you don’t find such a guru you are unfortunate not serious and/or Krsna is not pleased with you yet.
The next section tells us that a mantra given by a un-authorized gurus will have no spiritual effect nor will your so called deity worship . And worse still if one has such a nonsense guru then both the cheater guru and his followers all go to hell.
Therefore, the conclusion is- no acceptable, real, or practical connection to the Lord in the form of initiation takes place with the Supreme Lord because we have not gone thru the authorized bona fide param para whereby the tangible meeting of the spirit soul via the bona fide media of a Parmahamsa guru is established and given by mantra. It is a science, it has form and is the process given by the Lord since time immemorial.
As Srila Prabhupada says-”Its not that Krsna must accept your offering
Hare Krsna
Damaghosa das
Damaghosa das