Hare Krsna-below is a very instructive conversation with Srila Prabhupada about how householders should live “outside” a temple and conduct their affairs. Good time of year to make some good resolutions for behavioral changes as Vaisnavas.
damaghosa das
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BG 9.12 purport-There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead-will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same.
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Below here we now have a very instructive exchange of questions and answers…..One should always be in a questioning mood to the spiritual master…otherwise we are brain dead…Athato brahma jijnasu…human life is meant to inquire….. And this questioning mentality takes place after one has favorably served the guru.
Hawaii Feb 3 1975
Rāmeśvara: Many devotees who have moved outside of the temple are feeling that if they just continue to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they can go back to the spiritual world, but they are not giving up their independence.
Prabhupāda: So? What is your philosophy?
Rāmeśvara: Well, it seems somewhat hypocritical because chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa means you are praying to Kṛṣṇa to please be engaged eternally in His service and to become completely dependent on Him. So we try to explain like that. And to follow all the teachings and instructions, attending maṅgala āratik and morning and evening class.
Prabhupāda: So they are doing that or not?
Guru-kṛpa: No. They are not even following regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Rāmeśvara: They think just by chanting, they will go back to the spiritual world. That is enough.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the meaning of the ten kinds of offenses? If he is chanting without offense, then it is all right, but if he is committing offenses, it will not be effective. There are ten kinds of offenses. Whether he is strictly offenseless? Then it is all right. If he is offender, then it will not be fruitful. It will be fruitful; it will take long time because first of all you have to become offenseless. Then you will be admitted. (aside:) Don’t come very near. That’s it. So they are committing offenses, so how they can become perfect? He is committing not following the rules and regulation. That means he is thinking that “Whatever I do, it will be adjusted by chanting the name.” Is it not?
Guru-kṛpa: Yes. That’s one of the offenses.
Rāmeśvara: That is their philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That is their philosophy. That is the greatest offense, nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ, that “I can go on committing sinful activity, but by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it will be adjusted.” That is the greatest offense. So explain to them.
Guru-kṛpa: So they say, “Then my chanting is useless? So I should stop?” That’s what they say.
Prabhupāda: No, not useless. But just like if you kindle fire and at the same time pour water, it will take long time. To kindle fire, make it dry, keep it dry. Then it will be very quickly successful. So you are committing offenses, at the same time chanting, so by chanting effect, you will come to that stage, but it will take time. If you want to be transferred to the spiritual world quickly, just like if you want to ignite the fire very quickly, you must keep it dry. If you simply put on the wet wood, then the fire will not be very powerful. It will be… It will take time. The fire will be blazing fire. Then it will dry. It will take… Better put dry wood to make it successful. This is the process. The effect of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will not go in vain, but it will take time. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. Because he is thinking “By the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, I can do anything, all sinful activities, and it will be adjusted,” that is the greatest offense, not only offense, the greatest offense. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ.
…Siddha-svarūpa: It is very difficult to put everyone who is living outside of the temple in one category. Some people, they are, many people that I know living outside are following strictly the regulative principles, and they are…
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Siddha-svarūpa: They are strictly following regulative principles and chanting their rounds and having morning āratik in their homes. And evening also, they are chanting. So instead of fighting, I think we should only try to encourage everybody to chant and follow the regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: No, that is… Whether you live in temple or outside temple, the rules and regulation and the process must be followed. Then you are successful. It doesn’t matter that you have to live in the temple. Gṛhe thāko vane thāko, ‘hā gaurāṅga’ bo’le ḍāko. Not that everyone has to live in the temple. If he does not agree with other Godbrothers, friends, he can live separately. But he must follow the rules and regulation. That is wanted. But if you live with devotees, it will be automatically done.
Siddha-svarūpa: Easy.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that “Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant.” So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, “You should do; you should not do.” So if we follow “You should not do,” then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya pracūra. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya… Offenseless chanting is the ultimate goal. In the beginning we are not offenseless, but by chanting, chanting, by practice, we gradually become offenseless. But this is necessary, that you should be offenseless.
…Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it seems unfortunate that if the devotees cannot live in the temples, then they have to work for some karmi just to support themselves, and then they do not have time to go on the saṅkīrtana party. So it is such mercy to be on the saṅkīrtana party. So it seems very unfortunate that they do not have the time.
Prabhupāda: No, then they should live in the temple if they want to give service in the saṅkīrtana party.
Rāmeśvara: We always try to encourage them to come back to the temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he does not join the saṅkīrtana party, that does not mean his spiritual life is hampered. He has to follow the rules and regulation. He may not be able to join the saṅkīrtana party, but he must follow the process, rules and regulation. That is wanted. And because he is living outside the temple, therefore he will forget all rules and regulation and do whatever he likes—then it will ruin the whole thing.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it faster if one lives in the temple and goes on the saṅkīrtana party. Is it faster?
Prabhupāda: That depends on him. Even in the temple, if his mind is in a different subject matter, then how it will help him?
Bali Mardana: The temple authorities like to preach that anyone who’s living outside the temple is going to hell.
Prabhupāda: Generally.
Bali Mardana: But even devotees who are following. They like to preach that.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not. That is not. Just like even in ordinary business, if you transact business in the stock association, you get good business. And outside the stock association you don’t get. Because association is there, there are many purchaser and many seller. So if you have to sell, you get immediate purchaser. And if you have to purchase, there is immediate seller. That is… Therefore the stock exchange is there. That is the way, that if we live together in the stock exchange of devotional service, then you can help me; I can help you. So our business will go on nicely. And outside the market, you can live three hundred miles away from the stock exchange. You will not get so many business. Like that.
Devotee (2): You’ll miss the opportunities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is helpful. If you want to do business, you must take the first opportunity, the greatest opportunity, do your business. That is intelligence. And if we think, “All right, I shall do slowly. In seven hundred lives I shall become perfect,” that is another thing.
…Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, where does someone derive his authority…
Prabhupāda: The guru is authority.
Devotee (1): No, I know, but for his actions other than just following the four regulative principles and chanting sixteen rounds. He does so many other things during the day. Where does he derive his authority if he’s not, let’s say, living in the temple?
Prabhupāda: I do not follow. The authority is guru. You have accepted.
Bali Mardana: For everything.
Jayatīrtha: Say I have some outside job, I’m living outside, but I’m not giving 50% of my income. So then that work that I’m doing, is it actually under the authority of the guru?
Prabhupāda: Then you are not following the instruction of guru. That is plain fact.
Jayatīrtha: So that means that whole activity during the day, working, that means I am not following the instruction of the guru. It’s unauthorized activity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you don’t follow the instruction of guru, then you are fallen down immediately. That is the way. Otherwise why you sing, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. It is my duty to satisfy guru. Otherwise I am nowhere. So if you prefer to be nowhere, then you disobey as you like. But if you want to be steady in your position, then you have to follow strictly the instruction of guru.
Devotee (1): We can understand all of your instructions simply by reading your books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, follow the instruction. That is required. Follow the instruction. Wherever you remain, it doesn’t matter. You are secure. Follow the instruction. Then you are secure anywhere. It doesn’t matter. Just like I told you that I saw my Guru Mahārāja not more than ten days in my life, but I followed his instruction. I was a gṛhastha, I never lived with the Maṭha, in the temple. It is practical. So many Godbrothers recommended that “He should be in charge in this Bombay temple, this, that, that…” Guru Mahārāja said, “Yes, better he lives outside. That is good, and he will do what is needed in due course of time.”
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Now below in this conversation Srila Prabhupada explains how a householder who lives outside some formal “temple”, but makes his home a temple can live without karmic reaction and make progress on the path of bhakti.
740401mw.bom Conversations
Prabhupada: Karma-yogi means one who does everything for Krsna. He’s
karma-yogi.
Guest (1): One who does everything for…?
Prabhupada: For Krsna.
Guest (1): For Krsna.
Prabhupada: Just like you are doing, doing some work. For whom you are
doing?
Guest (1): For my own benefit.
Prabhupada: That’s all. So that is karma. But when you do the same
thing for Krsna, that is karma-yoga.
Prabhupada: Karma-yogi means one who does everything for Krsna. He’s
karma-yogi.
Guest (1): One who does everything for…?
Prabhupada: For Krsna.
Guest (1): For Krsna.
Prabhupada: Just like you are doing, doing some work. For whom you are
doing?
Guest (1): For my own benefit.
Prabhupada: That’s all. So that is karma. But when you do the same
thing for Krsna, that is karma-yoga.
Prabhupada: No, karma. (break) …for your own sense satisfaction,
that is karma. And if you do it for Krsna’s satisfaction, that is
karma-yoga.
that is karma. And if you do it for Krsna’s satisfaction, that is
karma-yoga.
Makhanlal: So vaidhi-bhakti is considered superior to karma-yoga then.
Prabhupada: No. Karma-yoga is better.
Makhanlal: Karma-yoga is better?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: No. Karma-yoga is better.
Makhanlal: Karma-yoga is better?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian man: Pure bhakti is superior.
Prabhupada: Pure bhakti is sravanam kirtanam. Sravanam kirtanam
visnu-smaranam pada-sevanam, that is pure bhakti. (break)
Yasomatinandana: …formed by anybody.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Karma-yoga.
Prabhupada: Unless one is inclined to take to devotion, it is not
possible to take to karma-yoga. Who can sacrifice the profit?
Prabhupada: Pure bhakti is sravanam kirtanam. Sravanam kirtanam
visnu-smaranam pada-sevanam, that is pure bhakti. (break)
Yasomatinandana: …formed by anybody.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Karma-yoga.
Prabhupada: Unless one is inclined to take to devotion, it is not
possible to take to karma-yoga. Who can sacrifice the profit?
Bhagavata: Then that’s superior to karma-yoga, to follow those nine
principles purely.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Makhanlal: Raganuga-bhakti is also superior to karma-yoga then?
Prabhupada: Bhakti is perfect stage. That is not for ordinary man.
Yasomatinandana: What is the difference between karma-yoga and… or
bhakti because they also (indistinct) Krsna?
Prabhupada: Now go on doing your duty, you’ll understand (indistinct).
Don’t try to understand in one day.
principles purely.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Makhanlal: Raganuga-bhakti is also superior to karma-yoga then?
Prabhupada: Bhakti is perfect stage. That is not for ordinary man.
Yasomatinandana: What is the difference between karma-yoga and… or
bhakti because they also (indistinct) Krsna?
Prabhupada: Now go on doing your duty, you’ll understand (indistinct).
Don’t try to understand in one day.
Some Conclusions- In the above conversations and book purports, Srila Prabhupada gives us some hints about how we can live , right now, outside some ” formal temple”, and still work on behalf of Lord Krsna, giving up 50% of our income and in that way remain under the authority of the spiritual master.
This using 50% income principle is not easy to do, as we all know. In one place it was explained that Rupa Goswami gave 50% of his income to the brahmanas and Vaisnavas, kept 25% for emergencies, and gave 25% for relatives. But he was in the renounced order of life at that time. And his 25% for emergencies kept aside was probably far more than any of our present incomes. This Krsna Conscousness movement is meant to teach us all the principles of knowledge of God and renunciation from all material things. So we should try to always follow these principles of renunciation as best we can, and utilize whatever our good karma gave to us by dovetailing it for Krsna seva.
For many of us, we cannot give money to iskcon anymore because of all the corruption present there today. So one recommendation is to live as frugally as possible,(simple living) and when we pass away, then out of the total wealth left, we can arrange to give 75% to some Krsna/Prabhupada sanctioned project, and then 25% to relatives.
Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
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Dec 30 1976
In our śāstra charity is recommended to be given to the high-class men, brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas. They know how to spend money. Therefore dātavyam iti yad dānaṁ tad dānaṁ sāttvikam ucyate. Just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are appreciating. So all the charity should come here. Then it is properly utilized. Because we do not use a single paisa for anything of sense gratification. We do not even smoke, we do not take tea, we lie down on the floor. Not a single paisa is spent for our sense gratification. Everything is utilized for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all charity should come here. Properly spent. But if we misspend, that is our fault. Single paisa we spend for our sense gratification, that is fault of us. And people should give at least fifty percent of their income to this movement. Twenty-five percent to the family and twenty-five percent let him keep for himself in case of emergency. This is the example shown by Rūpa Gosvāmī.
June 21 1969 letter
So go on with your prescribed duty of Krishna Consciousness and be happy. You are a very intelligent boy and faithful to your parents and to your duty. Certainly Krishna will be very much pleased upon you. The father and mother are also as good as the Spiritual Master, and we are indebted to father and mother in so many ways. So as they are dependent on your income, try to help them as far as possible, as well as spend something for Krishna also. Rupa Goswami spent 50% for Krishna, 25% for emergency, and 25% for relatives. You can also try to follow this principle as far as possible. Your main business is to keep in Krishna Consciousness, and if you keep that point in view, you can deal with others according to social conventions without being attached.
May 9 1976 letter
As you know, I have requested the devotees here to construct one beautiful temple on the grounds in order that many people may come from all around and see the gorgeous worship of the Deities. It is a big project and will require so much capital. So if possible you can try to follow the formula recommended practically by Srila Rupa Goswami, that 50% of one’s income be spent for propagating Krishna Consciousness. That will be very nice, and then your business endeavours will surely be pleasing unto the Supreme Lord