Devotee (2): What does he experience when he cuts off the outer senses and is able to…

Prabhupāda: Outer senses, what do you mean by outer senses-dead?

Devotee (2): His bodily senses.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of outer senses. Senses purified. What do you mean by outer senses?

Devotee (2): The senses with which you perceive the outer gross…

Prabhupāda: That always remains. But when it is not purified, you perceive material things. When it is purified, you perceive spiritual things.

Devotee (2): So the same gross senses will be able to see spiritual things.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is purified. Bhakti is the purifying process. I have already said. Not that the eyes are suffering from cataract disease, “Pluck out.” That is Māyāvādī philosophy.

Devotee (2): What does that mean, then, when the yogis withdraw their senses from the objects like it says like the tortoise withdraws his limbs within the shell? What does that refer to then?

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that? I do not follow.

Brahmānanda: He asks, in the yoga system…

Prabhupāda: Yoga system means always see Supersoul; that is real yoga system. Perfection. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginaḥ, being meditating and seeing the Supersoul, this is yoga. Not that he does not see. He is seeing Supersoul. He is seeing nothing else.

Devotee (1): He doesn’t see the Supersoul with the gross senses, though, does he?

Prabhupāda: Pure senses. He does not… Impure senses and pure senses.

Devotee (2): How can you tell when your senses are getting purified?

Prabhupāda: You will understand Kṛṣṇa more and more. So long your senses are not purified, you will not understand clearly what is Kṛṣṇa. [break] …understanding Kṛṣṇa means detestful to the material world, attached to Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavaḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. [break]

Devotee (2): Is it true that eventually by this process we’ll become purified so we can become like śruti-dharas?

Prabhupāda: That you will see when you become purified.

Devotee (2): Then we will actually attain that condition, then.

Prabhupāda: Try to become purified. Don’t imagine and guess, “What will be the condition when I am purified?” This is all nonsense. Try to become purified.

Devotee (2): Then you perceive it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: You tell the story of the potter. He has many pots. (Prabhupāda laughs) And he tries to imagine what it will be like when he becomes very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense, waste time. [break] …you are eating you will understand yourself, “Yes, I am eating, I am getting strength, I am getting satisfaction.” But simply theory…, “What will happen after eating? What will happen?” You eat and you see what is happening. What is the use of asking this question? You eat and you will understand. [break]

Devotee (2): Can you explain exactly what speculation means?

Prabhupāda: Speculation means thinking, “What will happen? Maybe like this, maybe like this.” That is speculation. [break] …speculate, “Kṛṣṇa may be like this. Kṛṣṇa may be like this.” That is speculation. When Kṛṣṇa appears before you, you see, “Oh, Kṛṣṇa is like this.” That is wanted. And if you speculate, “Kṛṣṇa may be like this,” it is all nonsense. Come to the stage when Kṛṣṇa will appear before you, and you will see what is Kṛṣṇa. Be qualified to that position. Māyāvādīs, they are speculating simply, “God may be like this.” Why “God may be like this?” God is factual, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.