Doctor: No, mantras. I have come to mantra. Klīṁ kṛṣṇāya govindāya gopījanavallabhāya namaḥ. Is that not a very powerful Kṛṣṇa mantra?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Doctor: That is better than Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No. Hare Kṛṣṇa is therefore called mahā-mantra.

Doctor: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare.

Prabhupāda: Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.

Doctor: This you regard as the, higher than any other…

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Therefore it is called mahā-mantra.

Doctor: …the highest sort of word?

Prabhupāda: No. If you keep Kṛṣṇa, that “This praṇava is the sound representation of Kṛṣṇa,” then it is all right. If you think it is separately powerful than Kṛṣṇa, that is nāma-aparādha.

Doctor: I understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you accept it as Kṛṣṇa says, that “I am praṇava,” if you do remember Kṛṣṇa by chanting oṁkāra, then it is all right.

Doctor: Otherwise, om is only given to sannyāsīs?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. It is not mentioned there. Anyone chanting Vedic mantra, he has to begin with oṁkāra.

… The difficulty is that we consider Kṛṣṇa is different from oṁkāra.

Doctor: That is a mistake.

Prabhupāda: That is a mistake.

Doctor: Why do you tape record?

Hari-śauri: Everything Prabhupāda speaks we tape record and then everyone in the world can listen.

Doctor: Someone said that the word om is given to sannyāsīs and it…

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa does not say.

Doctor: It’s not so.

Prabhupāda: “Someone,” we don’t take authority. “Someone.” There are so many “someones.” We don’t care for them. What Kṛṣṇa says we accept. That’s all.

Doctor: But this Kaṭha-Upaniṣad praises om.

etad ālambanaṁ śreṣṭhaṁ

etad ālambanaṁ param

etad ālambanaṁ jñātvā

brahma-loke mahīyate

Prabhupāda: Yes, Upaniṣad is giving lesson, counter part of this material world. Because… Just like you are stressing on oṁkāra because you do not give much importance to Kṛṣṇa. In the material world, Kṛṣṇa, they think Kṛṣṇa is one of the historical persons. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. So Upaniṣad is teaching us in an indirect way about the importance of Kṛṣṇa. Upa-niṣat. To bring you nearby. Because you have got so many material conceptions, if we say that “Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead,” you may not like it. Therefore… Oṁkāra is Kṛṣṇa. So you are giving lesson on oṁkāra. Although Kṛṣṇa and oṁkāra is not different, but you’ll not like Kṛṣṇa. In your present position you’ll not like Kṛṣṇa’s name.

Doctor: Why?

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are stressing…

Doctor: No, I have read all this and I am trying to reconcile.

Prabhupāda: So that is for the neophytes.

Doctor: The reconciliation is there. Om is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is om.

Prabhupāda: So if Kṛṣṇa is… If you are convinced, then where is the objection of Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Doctor: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Why should you bring so many objections?

Doctor: Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact.

Doctor: Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].

Prabhupāda: But because I do not like, therefore Upaniṣads give another chance, that “Chant oṁkāra.” That is the way. Because unless one is completely purified, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 7.28]

Doctor: Based on Vedas. Right.

Prabhupāda: Based. Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. By studying Vedas, Upaniṣads, if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, that means your study is not complete. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After studying this indirect information of Kṛṣṇa, when one is actually a learned, wise man, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That is very rarely found. This is fact. So if one is intelligent, that if only the most intelligent person, after many, many births one has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why not do it immediately? Why shall I wait for many, many births? That is intelligence.

Doctor: Śrī-kṛṣṇas tu śaraṇaṁ mama.

Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. That is intelligence. But that intelligence is not possible for ordinary persons. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. One who gets this intelligence, such kind of mahātmā, is very, very rarely found. To take it immediately, ah, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. That is very difficult.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

[Bg. 7.3]

It is not so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa or to accept Kṛṣṇa as all in all. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam. But if you take it, you are fortunate.