Discussion with Srila Prabhupada about the philosopher John Stuart Mill pg 708 Vol #6-
Śyāmasundara: But how do we determine that God is the cause behind everything?
Prabhupāda: Because then we know that God is the ultimate pusher, the pushing begins from there. So it may come through various agents. Just like one railway wagon is pushed by the engines, and it strikes another wagon and that is also pushed; another wagon, and that is pushed, that is also pushed. Similarly, the original pusher is the engine. Our study is like that, that the original, sa aikṣata, saaikṣata… These are the Vedic… He glanced over, He desired; immediately there was creation. Therefore the original pusher is God, Kṛṣṇa. Now, how it is happening, that we cannot see. Just like same example, the wagon is already pushed, it is coming automatically. A child sees, “Oh, this wagon is coming automatically, and it caught another wagon, and it is now moved.” He sees the (effect). But he did not see that ultimately there was a big engine that has pushed it.
Śyāmasundara: If we see a phenomenon like the rain falling or anything, and we want to apply the test that will prove that God is the cause of that phenomenon, what test do we apply?
Prabhupāda: The śāstras, the Vedic literature is there, the Upaniṣads are there, books are there, śāstra cakṣuṣa. You have to see it through the śāstras. That is the injunction. You cannot see directly. You have to see śāstra cakṣuṣa. Your eyes, they are defective. Just like if you read astrology, astronomy, then you can understand what is the actual volume or the bulk of the sun, but by your eyes you are seeing just a disc. So all your senses are defective. So directly seeing or perceiving or tasting has no value, because these are all defective. So we have to, it is said, you should see through śāstras, through authoritative instruction.
Śyāmasundara: So if we see the apple fall from the tree, the test that we apply is the sastric test. In order to see God in that act of falling, we have to see it through the eyes of the śāstras.
Prabhupāda: Now what do the scientists say—the law of gravity.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. The fruit became ripe, the stem…
Prabhupāda: The law of gravity, why was it not applying…, why did it not fall before?
Śyāmasundara: Now the fruit has become ripe so the stem has rotted…
Prabhupāda: Therefore the law of gravity is not all. There is another condition. So that he does not know.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, many conditions must…
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these conditions are made by God. The same apple is hanging and not falling down.That means other conditions are not yet fulfilled. So therefore simply studying law of gravity is not perfect.
Some Conclusions- I like the logic and common sense Srila Prabhupada applies to these questions about how things work, is there a “God” in control of everything? etc The example of the long train of railroad cars is very appropriate.. If anybody has ever seen and heard a train starting up, he knows that you hear an entire series of clunks as the train cars get pulled together as one with no slack in between them. Because we cannot see the locomotive at the far end of the train, we don’t know what is making the sounds of continuous “clunking”, but we know that there has to be some ultimate “cause” that is making all this happen. There is no “chance, no accident, making this happen. It is a person behind it all. Same thing with the apples and the so called law of gravity. Prabhupada gave the example of how this so called “law” of gravity did not work when Lord Ramchandra made tons of boulders float on the water so He could construct a bridge over from the mainland of India to the island of Lanka. Who has ever seen this happen and over such a great distance on the ocean? So the sastra states-unless we accept the inconceivable energy of the Supreme Lord, we cannot come close to understanding Him at all. How can you?
Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
