Philosophy discussions with Srila Prabhupada and Shyamasundar over Immanuel Kant
Śyāmasundara: He [Immanuel Kant] says the mind is aware that there is an ultimate reality, or a thing in itself, a noumenon, which produces each phenomenon, but the mind is not equipped to sense this ultimate reality. So the mind must remain forever content to be agnostic.
Prabhupāda: No. He should go to higher authorities. Why should he remain agnostic? If there is possibility, mind cannot go beyond this, but if the same thing, we say upon the roof there is some sound, now we speculate, but we cannot ascertain what is the sound. But if somebody is actually there, he says, “This sound is due to this.” So why I shall remain satisfied with agnostic position, that I could not ascertain what is the sound, and therefore I shall remain satisfied? I shall say, “Is there anybody on the roof?” If somebody says, “Yes. I am here,” “Will you kindly say what is the sound?” “Yes: this, that, this, that.” Therefore Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārtham: that which is beyond your senses, you must approach a spiritual master. He will give you information. That is our system, accepting guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. One who is inquisitive to understand the transcendental subject, he must approach a guru. What is guru? Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam: guru, who is expert or well versed in the Vedic literatures, śruti. And what is the result? How can I understand that he is well versed in Vedic literature? Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayaḥ. He has forgotten everything material; he is simply concerned with the spirit soul. That’s all. Everything is there. So Kant here is imperfect in his knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: Actually, he is just exploring this possibility, that because we can’t know it by our senses therefore we must…
Prabhupāda: That is misleading. Nobody can ascertain in that way. That is not possible. In the śāstras it is said that panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamya. He is thinking he is a man living for fifty or sixty or a hundred years. But if somebody is there, just like modern, these sputnik scientists, they say that if one can go forty thousands of years at the speed of light, he can approach the topmost planet. So śāstra says even one goes forty thousands of years, still you won’t find where is Kṛṣṇa, where is Kṛṣṇa’s abode. Not only at the speed of light, but he says the speed of mind and air. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām: [Bs. 5.34] still, the subject matter which is beyond my senses will remain the same, beyond my senses. This material attempt will not help. Never. There is another verse that adhane gopī chindan vidhena ataḥ pudedevo padamjadayan (?): “Dear Lord, a devotee who has got a little grace from your lotus feet, padamjadaya (?), he can understand You. Others, they may speculate for millions of years. Still it is not possible.” Just like Kṛṣṇa says that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: [Bg. 7.3] “Out of many millions of people, one is interested to make his life successful, and out of millions of successful…” Successful means one who understands that I am not this body. You ask, you take census, in this Nairobi city, you will find that 99.9%, or more than that, people do not know what he is. Everyone knows[thinks] that “I am this body.” So perfection of life means one who understands that “I am not this body…“ They become impersonalists, something like that, or voidists. Out of them—those who have understood perfection, that “I am not this body”—one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Out of many thousands of people who have attained actual perfect. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is actually not so easy, but these devotees are actually realizing Kṛṣṇa. Why? By the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Because the devotees are engaged in His service, He is revealing Himself. That is the process. Not by this, Kant’s speculation. It is not possible.
Some conclusions—In the above conversation the point is raised of how to understand God thru the mundane material senses and Srila Prabhupada says flatly, it is not possible. Even if you go at the speed of the mind, still you will never understand God. He gives the example of hearing some sound on the roof, and instead or remaining agnostic (well there may be God or there may not be God) if you can find somebody who is on that roof and you call out to him your question, then you can find out the answers to all your questions of what is going on in that roof which is beyond your immediate inspection. To do this one must find out a bona fide guru. And then he gives the qualifications this guru person must have -“forgotten everything material” and is only concerned with spiritual matters. This person who is 100% absorbed in spiritual life, he alone can answer all our questions. He also gives a challenge-go out into your city and ask everybody- who they are, and 99.9% or more will all say the same thing-”I am this body”, and practically none will understand I am NOT this body. Those very few persons who actually understand I am not this body, many take to impersonalism or become voidists. But for those who have achieved this perfection (knowing without any doubt) that I am not this body, and have met a bona fide guru pure devotee of the Lord and engage in His service, for them only ,will understanding God ever become possible.
Just to understand I am not this body he calls perfection, it is such an elevated position. It is the beginning of spiritual life. And from that platform devotional service actually begins.
BG 18.54-TRANSLATION
One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me.
Hare Krsna
damaghosa das
Just picked from one of the gardens out back– Russian purple kale stalks and some carrots for Lord Krsna’s dinner tonight-tell me this is not a healthy way to live ! Less than a hundred years ago, in America this was considered–normal for practically everyone-today, it is all processed, frozen and chemicalized
food they eat. No wonder hardly anybody is healthy anymore…..
