Hare Krsna

Damaghosa das… my reply is in italic, for   clarity sake…

you write…

“In the article, this last sentence was paraphrased from memory, but the   meaning is still the same as Srila Prabhupada’s statement, which now becomes   enhanced when taken in the context of his speech. He is obviously referring to   his present disciples as the next in the disciplic succession he has just   named and numbered, all of whom are directly initiating their own   disciples.

This is a very contentious point, as you well know. Many of our   Godbrothers ARE initiating disciples, but where is the actual order for   them to do that?

To my knowledge, there is no order. The only order he gave just prior   to leaving his body was for the GBC (and others in the future) to become   officiating acaryas. To initiate on his behalf. That’s all.This order   was never amended or stopped. This lecture given in 1972 could also mean he   wanted us, his disciples to continue as siksa gurus and not diksa gurus,   especially after seeing what happened in his Gaudiya matha. And you were   the receipient of that famous letter in 1974..

74-04-28.Rup                 Letter:   Rupanuga                 His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body.    He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea   was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self   effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and   his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and   later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to   be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability   to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times   a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON   camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become   acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately   because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may   sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them,   especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but   somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be   very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction   to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are   very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very   careful about them.

Srila Prabhupada also told us he was the initiating spiritual   master and all of us were the instructing spiritual masters. There   is a huge difference between the two. Both are supposed to say the same thing,   but one has the spiritual power to take on sins whereas the other (siksa guru)   only needs to give instruction to pass on the param para knowledge.And   then there is the massive qualifications needed to take on that function of   giving diksa. Two things, be ordered, and be qualified. So neither element is   there in iskcon gurus. They were not ordered, specifically, nor are they   qualified. Just being a good “boy” for some years by following the 4 reg’s and   chanting Hare Krsna is not the only qualification, nor is opening temples and   preaching at various places.

Just for starters, here are some of the qualifications Srila   Prabhupada mentions one MUST have if he is to initiate   others.’

1.)761003SB.VRN                      Lectures                     214022/530501 guru… Sisyas te ‘ham sadhi mam prapannam: “Now, Krsna, I    accept You as my guru. Not as friend.” Because friendly talking is   useless  waste of time. He accepted Him as guru. When guru speaks, you   cannot  argue. That is not the process. You should accept a guru    who is  infallible. Otherwise it is useless. He   accepted guru Krsna because Krsna  is infallible. If we accept   guru, a bogus guru, then it is no  benefit. Guru means Krsna’s   representative. Not that  everyone can be   guru.  

 

2.)61101SB.VRN                      Lectures                     225162/530501 This is religion. Adau gurvasrayam. If you do not get a    qualified guru, then everything is bogus. If you, by good fortune, if   you  get the association of a guru, qualified hamsa, paramahamsa…     Paramahamsa guru means sannyasi’s last stage is paramahamsa. Kuticaka,    bahudaka, parivrajakacarya, and paramahamsa, these are the different    stages. When one takes sannyasa, he lives outside the village in a kuti,   in  a cottage, and the family members goes and delivers him the food,   because  he is not practiced. So in the beginning, he keeps up this   association of  neighborhood or family, but he is not practiced. He   therefore lives outside  the village, and if somebody gives some food, he   eats. Then when he becomes  experienced, then he does not accept food   from one, either his own home or  one home. He takes foodstuff from many   homes: “Give me a little piece of  capati.” So somebody gives half,   because they are also not overburdened. If  they have to deliver, so many   sannyasis come, and sumptuous food, then how  the grhastha will provide?   Therefore though… They do not overburden. There  may be other sannyasis,   therefore little only. Madhupuri. The  Gosvamis practiced this madhupuri   in Vrndavana. They lived, but they would  take little only from the   house. This is called bahudaka. Then when he  has practiced more, he   travels all over the world, parivrajakacarya.    And

when he is fully   experienced, then, in spiritual life and  everything, then he is   paramahamsa. So one must find out a guru  who is paramahamsa.   Neither kuticaka, nor bahudaka, nor  parivrajakacarya.   Paramahamsa. …. Then our strong desire to  enjoy this   material world in different way, that will be slackened. That is  wanted.      Thank you very much.

3.)Madhya   24.330   When one has attained the topmost position   of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped   exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is   eligible to occupy the post of a guru.

4.) SSR    2                    Choosing a Spiritual Master           182103/530501

Reporter: I wondered   how many people you think might have been  taken in by fake gurus.    Srila   Prabhupada: Practically  everyone. [Laughter.] There is no   question of counting.  Everyone. Reporter: This would mean   thousands of people,  wouldn’t it? Srila Prabhupada: Millions.   Millions have been cheated,  because they want to be cheated.    God is omniscient. He can  understand your desires. He is within   your heart, and if you want to be  cheated, God sends you a cheater.   

  

———————————– you write…

He is speaking about distributing the knowledge of the parampara by his   disciples, whether they distribute the (same) knowledge as vartma-pradarsaka,   siksa or diksa gurus, depending on the capacity and qualifications of the   individual disciple. The point is to expand on the principle that guru is one,   not two. As Srila Prabhupada remarked elsewhere, if two gurus disagree, either   one is not a bona fide guru or both are not bona fide. He means that because   guru is one, all real gurus teach the same thing, Krsna consciousness.

So if guru is one and these gurus supposedly all teach all   the same thing, why do we have so many different siddhantas within the iskcon   camp? For starters, why have they totally changed the   process of offering bhoga? Prabhupada told us, and you are well aware of this,   that everything is first offered to guru, then up the param para   until one reaches Krsna. Iskcon now does it totally opposite. So how is   this param para gurus?

When somebody teaches opposite the Acarya, Srila Prabhupada,    he calls them demons, not even devotees!. Here is the   proof.

►740704BG.HON                    Lectures Prabhupada: Then so siksa and diksa-guru… A   siksa-guru who instructs against the instruction of spiritual, he is not a   siksa guru. He is a demon. Siksa-guru, diksa-guru means… Sometimes a   diksa-guru is not present always. Therefore one can take learning,   instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa-guru.   Siksa-guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of   the diksa-guru. He is not a siksa-guru. He is a   rascal.

  

73-01-04.Din                Letter:   Dhruvananda              The   greatest danger to our movement will come when we manufacture   and create our own process for worshiping the deities. So don’t ask   any more new questions, whatever is going on, follow it just to the   exact standard as I have given you, that’s all.

So not only are these so called leaders in iskcon changing the   very fundamentals of how to worship the Lord, Srila Prabhupada calls them   demons and are the GREATEST DANGER to this movement !! And you think they   are spiritual masters??

How do you explain this massive   discrepancy prabhu? I would be very grateful if you could supply me your   answer prabhu. you write… That is what it   means to be a guru as defined by Lord Krsna Himself. In the Gita, He tells   Arjuna one must surrender to a guru humbly and render service to him, with   inquiries; then that guru “will impart knowledge unto you…” That knowledge is   defined in the next verse: “And when you have thus learned the truth, you will   know that all living beings are but part of Me – and that they are in Me, and   are Mine.” (4.35) In other words, Lord Krsna clearly defines the bona fide   guru in terms of what he or she teaches: Krsna consciousness. God is one, guru   is one, although teaching according to time and circumstances.
So Srila   Prabhupada is notifying his disciples that they are the next authorized gurus   to distribute the knowledge, as he has done. Of course, he expected they would   practice what they preached, that is the qualification and character. Only   now, instead of one big guru, Srila Prabhupada, he envisioned many smaller   gurus to continue distributing the (same) knowledge all over the world. Once   before, he called it “old wine in a new bottle.” How else will Lord Caitanya’s   Name be known in every town and village? Srila Prabhupada’s followers have the   assignment.

Again, where is the actual order in Prabhupada’s final days,    other than the one where he authorizes officiating acaryas?? There is   no such order prabhu !!

All these quotes you supply can also be taken to mean that all the   disciples of Srila Prabhupada should become gurus, spiritual masters, but as   SIKSA GURUS, that’s all. It is only personal ambition that makes one think,   yes I AM qualified to become an initiating spiritual master. No bona fide guru   ever wants to be an acarya.

Prabhupada told us several time when  Srila Bhaktisiddhanta   maharaj appeared to him at least twice in dreams to take up sannyasa, he was   “horrified”. Why was he horrified? Because he knew what was involved and   really did not want to do it. Jesus Christ said the same thing, “let this   cup pass from me if possible, Lord.” But because these great souls are   totally surrendered to the Lord, they do what He asks of them. Unlike others   who WANT this position because of name and fame.

In the C.C. it is mentioned NOT to accept disciples. Why? Because of   the difficulty of taking on the karma.

If it was so easy to take on the disciples karma,then why do we have   the ugly and embarassing stories of so many failures of so called   stalwart leaders in iskcon?

Madhya 7.130   One should not try to be an artificially   advanced devotee, thinking, “I am a first-class devotee.” Such thinking   should be avoided. It is best not to accept any disciples. One has   to become purified at home by chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra and   preaching the principles enunciated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.    Thus one   can become a spiritual master and be freed from the contamination of   material life.

So in the above quote, he tells us to remain at home, dont take   disciples but become a   spiritual master.

This seems contradictory doesn’t it? So how can one become a spiritual   master- without diciples?

Be siksa guru. Bas…

you write…

Arjuna was told by Lord Krsna that the battle was already won, but Krsna   wanted him to help make it happen and get credit for success. Similarly, Lord   Caitanya said His Name would be known in every town and village. What God   predicts comes true. Srila Prabhupada has given the chance – a matchless   opportunity – for his followers to help the Lord execute His will. In whatever   capacity, one can join with Srila Prabhupada in saying, “And we are trying our   bit to distribute this knowledge.” That is, trying to pass it on as it is. All   glories to Srila Prabhupada…

In conclusion I will say this, that the final    instructions of the guru are the most important ones. All the others    he gives along the way may be applicable to individuals or the group,   according to time place and circumstances . But the most important of all   of them is what he says in his final days. These final instructions   supercede all other instructions. And they are the final   ones.  Here is the proof…

1.)SRILA PRABHUPADA: “I may say many things to you, but   when I say something directly, “Do it”, your first duty is to do that. You   cannot argue, “Sir, you said me like this before.” No, that is not your   duty. What I say now, you do it. That is   obedience. If the captain of the ship says “Five degrees   starboard” and the first mate replies, “But captain, before you told me ‘Ten   degrees port’,” then it can be understood that the first mate has    gone insane.” — lecture by Srila Prabhupada on the    Srimad-Bhagavatam, Hyderabad, India, April 15, 1975     710217rc.gor                   Conversations                  325478/530501

2.) 750327rc.may                   Conversations                  376438/530501 Atreya Rsi: …I am degraded.   “Very seriously, or may be given to me from time to time directly, these   directions, by my aforesaid Guru Maharaja, or through his books, or…” In   other words, direction given, instruction given, directly by him or through   his… Prabhupada: Better directly. Atreya Rsi: No “His   books”? Prabhupada: No. Atreya Rsi: Not necessary. Prabhupada:    Because I may give direction   according to the time. Atreya Rsi: “Or” means   both. Prabhupada: Hm? Atreya Rsi: “Or” can mean… All right. “Or   through his commissioners…”(?) Prabhupada: Direct, direct instruction is   important. Just like Krsna. In the books He has given many   instructions, but then He says, sarva-dharman parityaja. If one says that “You gave me   instruction before like this. How can I give up this?” so that   is not important. The direct instruction is   important.

3.) Devotee: …then   why is any one activity of Krsna consciousness better than another one? Why   is any one way of serving Krsna better than another? For example, with   chanting of the sixteen rounds. Suppose that you’ve gone 23 hours of the   day serving Krsna in one way or another, and the last hour there is   opportunity to finish your rounds and also opportunity to make a life   member. So instead of chanting your sixteen rounds… Prabhupada: But   you cannot create your concoction! You have to abide by the orders of   Krsna. Devotee: Then why… Prabhupada: There is no question of   why. It is the order of   Krsna’s representative. You have to abide by that.   You cannot say, “Why?”   Then you are   not fully surrendered, as soon as you say, “Why?”   Surrender means   there is no [surrender]”Why?” It is ordered; it has to be done. That’s   all. As   soon as there is “Why?”, there is no surrender. The   basic principle is misguided. We have to follow. Just like we have got   tilaka. If   you say, “Why   this tilaka?” There is no question of “Why?” Mahajano   yena gatah sa pantha. We have   been instructed by the acaryas; we have   to follow that. That is surrender. You cannot say,   “Why?” Is that clear? As soon as there is   “Why?”, there is no surrender.

  

Thank you again for   posting your new website. I asked you once a couple years back when do you   think the book changes

will stop? Your   reply (in snail mail) to me was when critical mass amongst the devotees   was reached. I agree, and similarly with the issue of guru   tattva.

All the problems we   see in iskcon today are all due to guru aparadha starting with the sin of   wanting to BE guru. Once guru tattva is

properly understood,   and we all understand our respective positions, and places not to go, then   Srila Prabhupada will be properly worshipped,

and the full   blessings of him, the param para, the  Goswamis, and the Panca Tattva   will be realized.

Parma vijate Sri   Krsna Sankirtan

Damaghosa   das