Several QAs with Srila Prabhupada Letter to Caturbhuja — Los Angeles 9 May, 1973: May 09, 1973
My Dear Caturbhuja,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to aknowledge receipt of your letter dated April 27, 1973. Thank you very much. In answer to your several questions, first; what is meant by conditioned sould? Conditioned soul means one who has accepted something illusion as reality. Conditioned means that due to imperfect desires the spirit soul becomes dependent on material conditions for his satisfaction.
Your second question; how does he become conditioned when the jivatma is eternal full of bliss and knowledge? The answer is that it is not the soul itself that becomes mixed with matter but it is his consciousness that becomes absorbed in trying to enjoy the matter. Out of desire to lord it over, the jiva soul forgets that he is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss and identifies with the material energy. So it is the consciousness of the conditioned soul that is affected.
Back To Prabhupada, Issue 68, Vol 1, 2021GBC member and ISKCON Minister of Communications Anuttama Dasa (“AD”) gave an interview in which he explained the GBC’s system for “creating” GBC gurus. All quotes in shaded boxes are taken from this interview published on 28/7/20. Emphases added.Everyone become guruSrila Prabhupada stated:“Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu…Yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna’-upadesa: “You become guru. No qualification required. […] Anyone can do it, even a child. […] Three words: Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; surrender unto Him; and chant Hare Krsna. Your life will be successful. […] Everyone can become guru by simply teaching these three words.” (Room Conversation, 26/1/77)Srila Prabhupada makes it clear that Lord Caitanya’s order for everyone to “become guru” requires one to have no qualification and thus even a child can do it, because it only requires one to simply state 3 things: Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, surrender unto Him, and chant Hare Krsna. These are the same basic preacher gurus, or simple siksa gurus, mentioned in the article on pages 4-5. Thus, since to become guru requires no qualification, such that even a child can do it very easily, one does not require special training to become such a guru. However, to be a GBC guru requires a special training program:”we’ve instituted training for people before they can become a guru […] we create systems to lift up those people and help them in their service and help them perform that service for their guru. […] when they [the public] hear that they go ‘Wow. Actually I’ve never heard of an organization with gurus that has training for gurus.'”Thus, the GBC is not creating the gurus Srila Prabhupada actually ordered, which require no qualification, never mind a special guru training program.Not bona fide diksa gurusRather, this training program is supposedly for creating diksa gurus – or those who initiate disciples and take responsibility for delivering them back to Godhead – as successors to take Srila Prabhupada’s position as ISKCON’s diksa guru. However, Srila Prabhupada never gave any orders for such a guru.Under the GBC’s guru system, “technically” someone who could be an “idiot” can become a guru, and the gurus can make mistakes because they have “flaws”:”technically I could become a diksa guru […] people might come up and say ‘he’s an idiot, don’t let him do it’, but technically there’s no barrier […] that doesn’t mean because I start being a guru tomorrow I’m perfect in the sense I’m never going to do anything wrong. You know, I’m a human being, I’ve got flaws […]”However, Srila Prabhupada teaches that a bona fide diksa guru must be liberated and does not commit mistakes:“Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can re-lease the conditioned soul.” (Bg., 7.14, purport)“Srimad-Bhagavatam, which is without trace of mistake, illusion, cheating and imperfection, which are the four flaws of all conditioned souls. The liberated souls are above these flaws […]” (SB, 1.3.24, purport)Need to protect GBC gurus”We say well, yeah, because guru is meant to be as good as God […] And at the same time we need to have checks and balances and we need to have systems in place to protect our leaders. Like brahmacari […] That doesn’t mean we don’t have systems in place to make sure the brahmacaris go to mangala-arati […]”Echoing the points just made, AD accepts that the diksa guru is meant to be “as good as God”. However, AD then goes on to justify the GBC’s guru training program by comparing the GBC gurus to regular brahmacaris, who need systems in place to make sure they “go to mangala-arati”, and thus the GBC gurus also need “checks and balances” and “systems” to “protect” them. But brahmacaris are not meant to be “as good as God”, whilst real diksa gurus, because they are “as good as God”, do not require to be supervised to be protected:“An authorized spiritual master is as good as Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If Hari is free to act as He likes, the empowered spiritual master is also free. As Hari is not subject to the criticism of mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subjected.” (Cc., Madhya-lila, 10.136)Need to protect discipleTherefore, due to these flawed GBC gurus, there is a corresponding training program for the would-be disciples of the GBC gurus, and one part of the training program deals with what to do if the guru “has a difficulty”:”we even talk about what to do if your guru has a difficulty. We’re open about these things”The interviewer asks how there can even be a need to “train” a guru when the guru is supposed to be an “enlightened person”. AD explains that the training program is required to try to rein in potential false gurus because:”disciples and followers have just had their hearts broken and their spiritual life crushed, and they go away faithless. So, you know, it’s Kali-yuga, we have to protect people, protect their faith.”Thus, AD is stating that the GBC is supporting a situation whereby fallible gurus are allowed to run rampant at the risk of crushing people’s spiritual lives, and this “guru training” is an attempt to try to protect people from these wobbly “Kali-yuga” gurus.ConclusionThe GBC’s “guru training” program to create diksa guru successors to Srila Prabhupada is not authorised. Nor is it even based on the concept of a bona fide diksa guru. Rather, it is based on the idea that ISKCON’s GBC guru system enables one to pretend to be “as good as God” without actually needing to be on this level, and therefore training and supervision is required to help pull off this fraud.One could of course instead just accept Srila Prabhupada as one’s diksa guru, since he actually is “as good as God”, and it was what he ordered should happen in ISKCON.
By 1977, Srila Prabhupada had built ISKCON into a confederation of many dozens of temples, farm communities and restaurants, and accepted 10,000 disciples. He had also authored dozens of books of spiritual knowledge of which over 150 million had been distributed in all the major languages of the world. Shortly before his passing he issued a directive to all ISKCON centres and Governing Body Commissioners (GBC the senior managers running the movement) to be implemented immediately in ISKCON. The directive, which is reproduced here , sets out a system by which Srila Prabhupada would continue to accept disciples without the need for him to be physically present on the planet. As you will read in the directive, he names 11 senior secretaries who were entrusted with accepting new recruits into the movement as direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada. The directive clearly states:
“The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative.”
Madhya 25.118–‘When one is transcendentally situated, he can perceive Me. This perception is the basis of one’s relationship with the Supreme Lord. Now let Me further explain this subject matter.PURPORT-Real spiritual knowledge has to be received from revealed scriptures. After this knowledge is attained, one can begin to perceive his actual spiritual life. Any knowledge achieved by speculation is imperfect. One must receive knowledge from the paramparā system and from the guru, otherwise one will be bewildered, and will ultimately become an impersonalist. When one very scrutinizingly deliberates, he can realize the personal feature of the Absolute Truth. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is always transcendental to this material creation. Nārāyaṇaḥ paro ‘vyaktāt:Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is always transcendental. He is not a creation of this material world. Without realizing spiritual knowledge, one cannot understand that the transcendental form of the Lord is always beyond the creative energy. The example of the sun and sunshine is given. The sunshine is not the sun, but still the sunshine is not separate from the sun. The philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda-tattva (simultaneously one and different) cannot be understood by one who is fully under the influence of the external energy. Consequently a person under the influence of the material energy cannot understand the nature and form of the Personality of the Absolute Truth.Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/25/118 Madhya 25.120–” ‘Now please hear from Me about the process of devotional service, which is applicable in any country, for any person, at all times and in all circumstances.PURPORT-The cult of bhāgavata–dharma can be spread in all circumstances, among all people and in all countries. Many envious people accuse this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement of spoiling the rigidity of so-called Hinduism. That is not actually the fact. Śrī CaitanyaMahāprabhu confirms that devotional service to the Lord-the cult of bhāgavata–dharma, which is now being spread as the HareKṛṣṇa movement-can be spread in every country, for every person, in any condition of life, and in all circumstances. Bhāgavata–dharma does not restrict pure devotees to the Hindu community. A pure devotee is above a brāhmaṇa; therefore it is not incompatible to offer the sacred thread to devotees in Europe, America, Australia, Japan, Canada, and so on. Sometimes these pure devotees, who have been accepted by Śrī CaitanyaMahāprabhu, are not allowed to enter certain temples in India. Some high-castebrāhmaṇas and gosvāmīs refuse to take prasāda in the temples of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Actually this is against the instruction of Śrī CaitanyaMahāprabhu. Devotees can come from any country, and they can belong to any creed or race. On the strength of this verse, those who are actually devotees and followers of Śrī CaitanyaMahāprabhu must accept devotees from all parts of the world as pure Vaiṣṇavas. They should be accepted not artificially but factually. One should see how they are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and how they are conducting Deity worship, saṅkīrtana and Ratha–yātrā. Considering all these points, an envious person should refrain from malicious atrocities.Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/25/120 Madhya 25.121–” ‘As far as religious principles are concerned, there is a consideration of the person, the country, the time and the circumstance. In devotional service, however, there are no such considerations. Devotional service is transcendental to all considerations.PURPORT-When we are on the material platform, there are different types of religions-Hinduism, Christianity, Mohammedanism, Buddhism, and so on. These are instituted for a particular time, a particular country or a particular person. Consequently there are differences. Christian principles are different from Hindu principles, and Hindu principles are different from Mohammedan and Buddhist principles. These may be considered on the material platform, but when we come to the platform of transcendental devotional service, there are no such considerations. The transcendental service of the Lord (sādhana–bhakti) is above these principles. The world is anxious for religious unity, and that common platform can be achieved in transcendental devotional service. This is the verdict of Śrī CaitanyaMahāprabhu. When one becomes a Vaiṣṇava, he becomes transcendental to all these limited considerations. This is also confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (14.26): māṁ ca yo ‘vyabhicāreṇabhakti-yogena sevatesa guṇān samatītyaitānbrahma-bhūyāya kalpate“One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.”The devotional activities of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are completely transcendental to material considerations. As far as different faiths are concerned, religions may be of different types, but on the spiritual platform, everyone has an equal right to execute devotional service. That is the platform of oneness and the basis for a classless society. In his Amṛta–pravāha–bhāṣya, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura confirms that one has to learn from a bona fide spiritual master about religious principles, economic development, sense gratification and ultimately liberation. These are the four divisions of regulated life, but they are subjected to the material platform. On the spiritual platform, the four principles are jñāna, vijñāna, tad–aṅga and tad–rahasya. Rules, regulations and restrictions are on the material platform, but on the spiritual platform one has to be equipped with transcendental knowledge, which is above the principles of religious rituals. Mundane religious activity is known as smārta–viddhi, but transcendental devotional service is called Gosvāmī-viddhi. Unfortunately many so-called gosvāmīs are on the platform of smārta–viddhi, yet they try to pass as Gosvāmī-viddhi, and thus the people are cheated. Gosvāmī-viddhi is strictly explained in Sanātana Gosvāmī’s Hari–bhakti–vilāsa, wherein it is stated: yathā kāñcanatāṁ yātikāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥtathā dīṣkā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇāmThe conclusion is that devotional service is open for everyone, regardless of caste, creed, time and country. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is functioning according to this principle.Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/25/121 Some Conclusions— Srila Prabhupada writes above….A pure devotee is above abrāhmaṇa;therefore it is not incompatible to offer the sacred thread to devotees in Europe, America, Australia,Japan, Canada, and so on. Sometimes these pure devotees, who have been accepted by ŚrīCaitanyaMahāprabhu, are not allowed to enter certain temples in India.I find this point he makes about his disciples being pure devotees interesting. For one who has studied his teachings in his books, we will find many points about classes of devotees, the neophytes being the lowest, then Madhyama being second class and Uttama adhikari being the top most. And this is not the only place he mentions (twice in this purport) that his disciples being pure devotees. Of course that recognition of purity comes with the total acceptance and obedience to Srila Prabhupada that distinguishes those pure devotees from those devotees who are still so called religionists, (smarta brahmanas) or those who do not follow 100% of his instructions.He writes…Unfortunately many so-called gosvāmīs are on the platform of smārta–viddhi, yet they try to pass as Gosvāmī-viddhi, and thus the people are cheated. So what is just one distinguishing characteristic of a smarta brahmana from a goswami brahmana? He writes….When we are on the material platform, there are different types of religions-Hinduism, Christianity, Mohammedanism, Buddhism, and so on. These are instituted for a particular time, a particular country or a particular person. Now we will explain how iskcon has changed things according to their time and circumstances Most devotees today know of the massive changes in Prabhupadas books. One example that comes to mind is in an exchange between Dhira Govinda das and Dravida one of the BBT editors who wrote that just one of the changes he made in the books regarding the process of initiation was because the current mentality or way of doing things in present day iskcon was different than the way Srila Prabhupada described the process of initiation-and that is why he changed Prabhupadas own words-just to fit in with the current state of affairs in iskcon. First of all he should never change the Acaryas words, and then his reasons for this change is to fit in with the current way of thinking in iskcon. Here is his excuse or reasons below…..Taken From the original CC (below)…“Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who *initiated* Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji”(C:C, Chapter 1)In the new BBT doctored 9-volume edition, the same passage reads:“Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn accepted Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji”Dravida das, the BBTeditor writes….“On the side of not changing the “initiated” phrases we have the strong bias against changing the books unless absolutely necessary and the fact that Srila Prabhupada did indeed say that Jagannatha das Babaji initiated Bhaktivinode.”Please note that Dravida clearly ADMITS that Srila Prabhupada “DID indeed say that Jagannatha das Babaji initiated Bhaktivinode”. To any sane person, this would be the ONLY reason required to NOT tamper with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings in any manner whatsoever. But hold on.Dravida Das has a reason that far outweighs a mere detail such as what Srila Prabhupada himself actually taught. Rather he states we must change Srila Prabhupada’s teachings to ensure they conform with what is currently understood within ISKCON in regards to initiation:“Leaving one or both “initiated”s will strongly imply that the use of the phrases “direct disciple” and even “accepted [as his disciple]” indicate formal initiation as we know it in ISKCON, which is far from the truth.” (BBT Editor, Dravida Das)If Dravida leaves in the words “initiated” in the CC purport, this means that the ritvik system can continue to initiate new devotees with Srila Prabhupada as their “living guru”. But iskcon does not want that system because they want to replace Prabhupada as the current and living guru of iskcon.So for this reason and a hundred more, present day iskcon has devolved itself into a smarta so called brahmana organization of materialistic religion having disobeyed the orders of its Acarya Srila Prabhupada . The Christians did the same thing with King Justinian hundreds of years ago when he ordered that passages about reincarnation be taken out of the Bible. Why do that? He wanted to control the masses of blind followers into thinking that you only live one life and since you only had one lifetime you better do it according to his way, or else !Hare Krsnadamaghosa das
“But we should.. we should as an.. and Prabhupada memories can deteriorate, even the remembrance that he was here and what his quality was. So we have to do this kind of thing: remember him and we speak about his qualities, so that we don’t forget what he is in our life.
Because so the importance that I just spoke with of his presence that we can remember is his ability to take us back to Godhead, and that I see, as I said, as his quality of his power as an empowered agent of Krishna the loving agent to do that. You go in the material world you fit into disciplic succession, but in a very special way, and go and I’ve been reading these New York Diaries and the Jaladuta Diaries, go and bring all these souls back.
And he has done it, well he’s he has he’s done a lot of it, and a lot of it has to be done by his followers, but by following his, his example, and part of it you know what more can we do.
You know, we’ve flopped as trying to be gurus, they’re trying to carry out any imitation of his presence but remembrance itself is a big thing. Just remember how Prahupada held the cup or did this, did that, it’s a good thing asking all the devotees what was he like, what did he do, so there’s people in the future can remember that story you just told.”
“Even though somebody by mistake has gone to a rascal, the book is there. As soon as you find out, ‘Here is a rascal who does not know anything about Kṛṣṇa, and I have come to him,’ reject him. That is stated in the śāstra. Gurur apy avaliptasya kāryākāryam ajānantaḥ parityāgo vidhīyate. Even by mistake you have come to a rascal who does not know how to become guru, you can reject him. Why should you stick to him? Reject him. And by mistake I have come to rascal. Why shall I continue to accept him as guru? Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, tyaja durjana-saṁsargaṁ bhaja sādhu-samāgamam: ‘Give up all rascals. Associate with sādhus.’ If you do not do that, that is your fault.Tyaja durjana-saṁsargaṁ bhaja sādhu-samāgamam. We have to mix with sādhu. Sādhu means who are twenty-four-hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa’s service. Things are there. Why should you mix with asādhu? Then how can you understand? Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (CC Madhya 23.14-15). If you have got little faith, then next business is to associate with sadhus.”(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, Bhuvanesvara, January 31, 1977)
—————————————————————————————————-ISKCON is selling Garuda dasa [Graham M. Schweig’s] Gita Link where ISKCON stores are selling this bogus version online in “Other Editions” sections.https://store.krishna.com/bhagavad-gita-the-beloved-lords-secret-love-song/ This is a matter of etiquette. If a previous acarya has already written about something, there is no need to repeat it for personal sense gratification or to outdo the previous acarya.” [CC, Madhya, text 151] Our students have no time to read our own books, but they have time to read other’s books, and the money to purchase them? Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Cyavana:Bombay 13 October, 1973Brahmananda Swami has read me your letter regarding the students there reading other books. I request you to stop this practice. Our students have no time to read our own books, but they have time to read other’s books, and the money to purchase them? Why this mentality is there? You are a serious student, therefore you have correctly found out the defect in these books. We don’t want babaji class. We want active preachers.SRILA PRABHUPADA QUOTES ON BHAGAVAD GITA WITH NO KRSNA PICTURE CLEARLY VISIBLE ARE UNAUTHORIZED:
Need to protect discipleTherefore, due to these flawed GBC gurus, there is a corresponding training program for the would-be disciples of the GBC gurus, and one part of the training program deals with what to do if the guru “has a difficulty”:”we even talk about what to do if your guru has a difficulty. We’re open about these things”The interviewer asks how there can even be a need to “train” a guru when the guru is supposed to be an “enlightened person”. AD explains that the training program is required to try to rein in potential false gurus because:”disciples and followers have just had their hearts broken and their spiritual life crushed, and they go away faithless. So, you know, it’s Kali-yuga, we have to protect people, protect their faith.”Thus, AD is stating that the GBC is supporting a situation whereby fallible gurus are allowed to run rampant at the risk of crushing people’s spiritual lives, and this “guru training” is an attempt to try to protect people from these wobbly “Kali-yuga” gurus.ConclusionThe GBC’s “guru training” program to create diksa guru successors to Srila Prabhupada is not authorised. Nor is it even based on the concept of a bona fide diksa guru. Rather, it is based on the idea that ISKCON’s GBC guru system enables one to pretend to be “as good as God” without actually needing to be on this level, and therefore training and supervision is required to help pull off this fraud.One could of course instead just accept Srila Prabhupada as one’s diksa guru, since he actually is “as good as God”, and it was what he ordered should happen in ISKCON.
