Devotee: [Taking the part of a materialistic scientist] Why do you call Krishna consciousness a science? It seems like it’s only a belief.

Srila Prabhupada: Your so-called science is also belief. If you call your way science, then our way is also science.

Devotee: But with our science we can prove our beliefs.

Srila Prabhupada: Then prove that chemicals make life. Your belief is that life is made from chemicals. So prove it; then it is science. But you cannot prove it; therefore it remains a belief.

Devotee: Well, you believe in the soul, but you can’t prove that it exists. Since we cannot see the soul, we have to conclude that life comes from matter.

Srila Prabhupada: You cannot see the soul with your gross senses, but it can be perceived. Consciousness can be perceived, and consciousness is the symptom of the soul. But if, as you say, life comes from matter, then you must demonstrate it by supplying the missing chemicals to make a dead body live again. This is my challenge.

Devotee: We will require some time to find the right chemicals.

Srila Prabhupada: That is nonsense. Your belief is that life comes from chemicals, but you cannot prove it. Therefore you prove yourself to be a rascal.

Devotee: But you accept the Bhagavad-gita on faith. How is that scientific? It’s only your belief, isn’t that correct?

Srila Prabhupada: The Western civilization is a nasty civilization, artificially increasing the necessities of life. For example, take the electric light. The electric light requires a generator, and to run the generator you need petroleum. As soon as the petroleum supply is stopped, everything will stop. But to get petroleum you have to painstakingly search it out and bore deep into the earth, sometimes in the middle of the ocean. This is ugra-karma, horrible work. The same purpose can be served by growing some castor seeds, pressing out the oil, and putting the oil into a pot with a wick. We admit that you have improved the lighting system with electricity, but to improve from the castor-oil lamp to the electric lamp you have to work very hard. You have to go to the middle of the ocean and drill and then draw out the petroleum, and in this way the real goal of your life is missed. You are in a precarious position, constantly dying and taking birth in various species of life. How to get free of this cycle of birth and death – this is your problem. And this problem is meant to be solved in the human life. You have advanced intelligence for self-realization, but instead of using your advanced intelligence for self-realization, you are utilizing it to improve from the castor-oil lamp to the electric lamp. That’s all.

Kulasekhara dasa: People would say that your suggestion is impractical. Besides, electricity does many other things besides produce light. Most of our modern comforts depend more or less on electricity.

Srila Prabhupada: In this life you may be living very comfortably, but in the next life you might become a dog.

Srila Kirtanananda Swami: People don’t believe that.

Srila Prabhupada: Whether they believe it or not, it is a fact. For example, a boy does not know that he is going to grow into a young man, but his mother and father know. If the boy says, “No, I’m not going to become a young man,” that is childish; the father and mother know that the boy will grow into a young man and that they should educate him so he can be properly situated. This is the guardians’ duty. Similarly, when we talk of transmigration of the soul, a rascal may say, “I don’t believe in it,” but it is still a fact. A rascal, a mad man, may say transmigration is not a fact, but the real fact is that he’ll have to accept another body according to the quality of his endeavor in this life. (karanam guna-sango ’sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu).

Srila Kirtanananda Swami: What if someone says, “This life of growing the castor seeds is very difficult, and farming in general is very difficult. It is easier to go to the factory for eight hours, come home with my money, and enjoy.”