Hare Krishna Society

Hare Krsna–

Below is a conversation and part of a lecture where Srila Prabhupada is asking a disciple what he thinks it means to be- “Krsna Conscious” ? I am sure if it went on Srila Prabhupada would have gotten a lot of different answers, so he gives us the answer in a short clear way, which is easy to understand. Please read below for his answer. The following lecture next, he explains a little bit more of how to attain this God or Krsna Consciousness. There is another conversation, which I have repeatedly and unsuccessfully tried to find where Srila Prabhupada is speaking about being in Vrndavana as a young man and Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja is opening a new temple and practically all the disciples have left to see the installation of the new deity-except for our Srila Prabhupada and a very few others, whose guru basically tells him that “this boy likes to hear me” and what will the other disciples “see” when they go to the installation -they will see some stone statue of Krsna, but not actually “see” the Lord, personally. He said, we see first- by hearing from the guru. These things are significant.

damaghosa das

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Dec 10 1975 Vrndavana conversation-–

Viśāla: I remember over five years ago you telling me about, “If you read the first nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.” Would you kindly tell me what does it mean to be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: What do you understand, fully Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Viśāla: What does it mean to be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: No, what you mean, first of all let me know.

Harikeśa: What do you think fully Kṛṣṇa concious means? You tell Prabhupāda.

Viśāla: It’s to see Kṛṣṇa face to face?

Prabhupāda: That means Kṛṣṇa conscious? Everyone is seeing Kṛṣṇa face to face. When you go to the temple Kṛṣṇa is there, and you are seeing. Does it mean everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Viśāla: No.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Indian man: Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54].

Prabhupāda: Hm, that is part of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, brahṁa bhūtaḥ. Real Kṛṣṇa consciousness is: “Kṛṣṇa is master, I am servant.” This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Viśāla: To understand that you’re the servant and Kṛṣṇa is the master. I see.

Prabhupāda: When you fully understand, that is your Kṛṣṇa… That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. [break] So long you think that “I can also become like Kṛṣṇa,” then you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Viśāla: In other words, if you still have material desires you can’t be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Make all your material desires zero.

Viśāla: Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You should only desire to serve Kṛṣṇa. [break] …clear or not?

Viśāla: Very clear. Thank you very much.

Harikeśa: What if a person doesn’t desire material enjoyment, but still, there is so much dirt?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Who is that person who has no material desires?

Harikeśa: A person really wants to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, but somehow or another, so much dirts gets in the way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dirt means it is not yet zero. I said that all material desires should be made zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11].

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Before and after, by Haripada dasa
Before it means when Srila Prabhupada was in his physical form preaching Krishna consciousness, and after it means after Srila Prabhupada disincarnated or entered his lila samadhi, I have the 23 DVDs from the ITV collection on Srila Prabhupada, there you see the very happy and bright devotees in Krishna consciousness, there Srila Prabhupada was the center and the founding Acharya and everyone was very united to please Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada’s wish and Krishna’s is that when Srila Prabhupada entered his samadhi lila, everything would continue the same as before, that is why Srila Prabhupada ordered his disciples to initiate in his name, and he would continue to be the center and the spiritual master of all, that is called Jagat guru, the guru of the whole universe.
Unfortunately Srila Prabhupada’s disciples made changes to Srila Prabhupada’s books and did not obey the order to initiate in his name, and in an artificial way that is by vows (Srila Prabhupada says in El Chaitanya Charitamrita, Madhya Lila, 1, 220, that the choice of a guru is not made by votes), they became gurus because they think that they are at the same level as Srila Prabhupada, when Srila Prabhupada’s Gurudeva entered his lila samadhi a very similar thing happened, there is a letter that Srila Prabhupada sent him to Rupaguna explaining what happened, there Srila Prabhupada says that his Gurudeva openly said to create a GBC and to all work together, and if they see someone who is self-effulgent they have to accept him as my successor, they did not obey these orders and the result is that now they all claim to be Acharyas, although they may be adhikaris kanisthas with no ability to preach, therefore we may make the same mistake in our ISKCON. Actually, among my godbrothers no one is qualified to become Acharya. So it is better not to mix with my godbrothers too intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they can sometimes contaminate them. This attempt was previously made by them, especially Madhava Maharaja, Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja, but one way or another I saved the situation.
We accept that Srila Prabhupada is that self-effulgent person, but Gaudiya Matha does not recognize that, we do not mix with Gaudiya Matha. We do not mix with Srila Prabhupada’s disciples who are betraying and offending Srila Prabhupada, they live in unconsciousness and that is the reason why they do not want to obey Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada, Krishna and everyone would like it. that Iskcon was led by people who obey and love Srila Prabhupada, it is always better to pray for others than to criticize, we pray to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna so that these people obey Srila Prabhupada and thus we would all be together and happy and bright in the Krishna consciousness.
I have served in Iskcon 1984-2008, Krishna has distributed through me more than a quarter of a million books of Srila Prabhupada and from my collection I have given them more than 500,000 dollars, they have deceived me but I do not bear any grudge They already have a bad enough misfortune to be the way they are. Now I feel happy and free in Krishna consciousness.

https://youtu.be/lCASsDCBNIw ( ISKCON HISTORY – Tamal Krishna Swami – Topanga canyon discussions “It is a myth” )
https://youtu.be/YJm1xKyQqaM ( ISKCON HISTORY – Additional comments on SPL to Rupanuga – Why go to GM? )

Haribol.

Hare Krsna Dear Prabhus,

So did Lord Caitanya initiate EVERYONE to be a Diksa-guru initiating spiritual master In HIS presence, not just vartma-pradasak or maybe siksa-guru!!! That would be against sastric injunction, not to initiate in the presence of one’s guru. However the bogus guroo club now allow that, in order to try and endorse that’s what Mahaprabhu meant anyway….

Yfs, Balaram das.

EXCERPT: Bhagavad-gītā 4.1–2 Columbus, May 9, 1969

“…You haven’t got to comment or add anything, something. But to present, you can speak something, but the central point should not be missed. Then people will be benefited. Then people will be benefited. They will receive the message as it is, and this is transcendental message.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa
yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa

[Cc. Madhya 7.128]

[“Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa as they are given in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.”]

Lord Caitanya says that “Every one of you become the spiritual master. Every one of you. Why one, two? Every one of you.” “Oh, spiritual master is very difficult job.” No. No difficult job. Caitanya Mahā… Āmāra ājñāya: “Just try to carry out My order. That’s all. Then you become spiritual master.” And if you interpolate, if you put something nonsense, rubbish, to show your so-called rascal’s education, then it is spoiled. Immediately spoiled. And if you present as it is, then it is pure…”

Bhagavad-gītā 4.1–2

Columbus, May 9, 1969

Audio for this lecture: https://prabhupadavani.org/transcriptions/bhagavad-g%C4%ABt%C4%81-412/

Hare Krsna-Below is a very nice description of how human society can be organized so as to minimize our sinful activities and make both material and spiritual advancement at the same time . These two paths are called pravritti marga and Nvritti marga or the paths of material enjoyment and the path of liberation from birth and death

damaghosa das

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SB 1.17.38–TRANSLATION

Sūta Gosvāmī said: Mahārāja Parīkṣit, thus being petitioned by the personality of Kali, gave him permission to reside in places where gambling, drinking, prostitution and animal slaughter were performed.

PURPORT-The basic principles of irreligiosity, such as pride, prostitution, intoxication and falsehood, counteract the four principles of religion, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. The personality of Kali was given permission to live in four places particularly mentioned by the King, namely the place of gambling, the place of prostitution, the place of drinking and the place of animal slaughter.

Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī directs that drinking against the principles of scriptures, such as the sautrāmaṇī-yajña, association with women outside marriage, and killing animals against the injunctions of scriptures are irreligious. In the Vedas two different types of injunctions are there for the pravṛttas, or those who are engaged in material enjoyment, and for the nivṛttas, or those who are liberated from material bondage. The Vedic injunction for the pravṛttas is to gradually regulate their activities towards the path of liberation. Therefore, for those who are in the lowest stage of ignorance and who indulge in wine, women and flesh, drinking by performing sautrāmaṇī-yajña, association of women by marriage and flesh-eating by sacrifices are sometimes recommended. Such recommendations in the Vedic literature are meant for a particular class of men, and not for all. But because they are injunctions of the Vedas for particular types of persons, such activities by the pravṛttas are not considered adharma. One man’s food may be poison for others; similarly, what is recommended for those in the mode of ignorance may be poison for those in the mode of goodness. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī Prabhu, therefore, affirms that recommendations in the scriptures for a certain class of men are never to be considered adharma, or irreligious. But such activities are factually adharma, and they are never to be encouraged. The recommendations in the scriptures are not meant for the encouragement of such adharma, but for regulating the necessary adharma gradually toward the path of dharma.

Following in the footsteps of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, it is the duty of all executive heads of states to see that the principles of religion, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, are established in the state, and that the principles of irreligion, namely pride, illicit female association or prostitution, intoxication and falsity, are checked by all means. And to make the best use of a bad bargain, the personality of Kali may be transferred to places of gambling, drinking, prostitution and slaughterhouses, if there are any places like that. Those who are addicted to these irreligious habits may be regulated by the injunctions of the scripture. In no circumstances should they be encouraged by any state. In other words, the state should categorically stop all sorts of gambling, drinking, prostitution and falsity. The state which wants to eradicate corruption by majority may introduce the principles of religion in the following manner:

1. Two compulsory fasting days in a month, if not more (austerity). Even from the economic point of view, such two fasting days in a month in the state will save tons of food, and the system will also act very favorably on the general health of the citizens.

2. There must be compulsory marriage of young boys and girls attaining twenty-four years of age and sixteen years of age respectively. There is no harm in coeducation in the schools and colleges, provided the boys and girls are duly married, and in case there is any intimate connection between a male and female student, they should be married properly without illicit relation. The divorce act is encouraging prostitution, and this should be abolished.

3. The citizens of the state must give in charity up to fifty percent of their income for the purpose of creating a spiritual atmosphere in the state or in human society, both individually and collectively. They should preach the principles of Bhāgavatam by (a) karma-yoga, or doing everything for the satisfaction of the Lord, (b) regular hearing of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from authorized persons or realized souls, (c) chanting of the glories of the Lord congregationally at home or at places of worship, (d) rendering all kinds of service to bhāgavatas engaged in preaching Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and (e) residing in a place where the atmosphere is saturated with God consciousness. If the state is regulated by the above process, naturally there will be God consciousness everywhere.

Gambling of all description, even speculative business enterprise, is considered to be degrading, and when gambling is encouraged in the state, there is a complete disappearance of truthfulness. Allowing young boys and girls to remain unmarried more than the above-mentioned ages and licensing animal slaughterhouses of all description should be at once prohibited. The flesh-eaters may be allowed to take flesh as mentioned in the scriptures, and not otherwise. Intoxication of all description-even smoking cigarettes, chewing tobacco or the drinking of tea-must be prohibited.

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March 9 1975 London interview

Prabhupāda: …he did not like to kill his cousin-brother. He said that “Even they usurp my kingdom, I do not wish to kill them.” So this affection, this bodily affection, was not very much approved by Kṛṣṇa. He said that “You are talking like a non-Āryan.” Anārya-juṣṭam. Anārya. “The Āryan, they do not think like that.” Another place He says that “You are giving consideration on the body, but any learned man does not refer to body, either dead or alive. They, learned man, will give stress on the moving force of the body.” So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means basically on the moving force of the body. Reporter: The moving force of…? Prabhupāda: Of the body. Just like you are moving, I am moving. As soon as the moving force, whatever it is, is gone, then your body is a lump of matter, my body is a lump of matter. Reporter: Have you had any difficulty in bringing this, which seems to have originated in India, into the West? Prabhupāda: Hmm? Haṁsadūta: Have we found any problems or difficulty is bringing this teaching, which appears to have originated in India, to the West? Have we found any problem? Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be any problem. Just like I am speaking to you. If you are sane man, you will have to admit this. The mistake you will have to admit, if you are a sane man. If you are something else, then you will not admit the mistake. Reporter: Uh huh. But… Prabhupāda: Now, the mistake is… You are talking with me; I am talking with you. Your body is there, my body. But which is important? Your body is important, or the force which is talking, that is important? Which is important? Reporter: The force. Prabhupāda: Just see. So who is giving? Where is the educational institution to give lesson about this living force? Is there any education all over the world? Continue reading →

Brahmānanda: …Calcutta, on the Maidan, there’s that big building, that big memorial. Is that… Prabhupāda: Oh, Victoria Memorial. Brahmānanda: That was built for, the king when he was coming? Prabhupāda: No, that was built in memory of Victoria. It was done, imitating the Taj Mahal. It took twenty years. Sir Rajendranath Mukherjee of Martin Company, he took the contract. And after finishing, he got this title, “Sir.” And when it was being constructed, I went to the top by crossing the scaffolding. Brahmānanda: So you must have been very brave. Prabhupāda: Yes, I am still brave. (laughter) Otherwise how could I come alone to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I am still brave. Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda! Prabhupāda: Some astrologer told that “This boy, for executing his purpose, he will enter into the fire.” Yes. [break] …recently, in our Bombay affair, it was fight with the fire. Is it not? Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes. Prabhupāda: And we have come out victorious. Brahmānanda: Yes. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. Prabhupāda: So much obstacle, still going on. Now the governor is cornered. Brahmānanda: The governor of Maharastra. Prabhupāda: Yes, Bombay. If he says yes, that is also dangerous; if he says no, that is also dangerous. [break] Brahmānanda: We do not really understand how demoniac, how calculating, our leaders are. Continue reading →

Feb 21 1975 Caracas

Prabhupāda: University education is simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is different. Education is brahma-vidyā, self-realization. Therefore in politics the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government, revolution. Why? From nature’s study we can see one tree is producing a particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every year. Nature’s way—the sun is rising from the eastern side—that is standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, “Let the sun rise from the north.” It is childish, simply childish. “Eastern philosophers, Western…” What is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy. Why they talk of Eastern, Western?” Eastern sun, Western sun.” Sun is always Eastern, never Western. How one can say, “Western sun?” [break] Just see. It is in the water, but the water is not over it. If the water increases, it also increases. See? There is no water on the leaf. Here you see. The water must be always down. [break] …falling from the top of the Sumeru Hill, a big tree, and the juice, after falling down, turns into a river of mango juice. And the blackberries, they are just like the body of elephant and small seed. They also turn into river, Jambu-nada. And the both sides of the river, being moistened by the juice and dried by air and interacted by the sunshine, it becomes gold. And that gold is used for the denizens of heaven for their ornaments, helmets, bracelet, belt. Where is gold here? Paper. They cannot make even gold coins. They are reducing into poverty. In our childhood we have seen gold coin currency, silver coin. And now there is no such thing. Plastic. Paper and plastic. This is their advancement. Yes, it is a nice garden.

Śrutakīrti: Yes. [break]

Hṛdayānanda: Things are very rapidly reducing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There will be no rice, no wheat, no sugar, no fruits, gradually. So much sinful activities, they must be punished like that. [break]

Hṛdayānanda: …a question from the lawyer?

Prabhupāda: Hm, don’t come near. What is that?

Hṛdayānanda: He wanted to know what is the relation between the Vedic culture of India and the cultures that originally were in Latin America. There seemed to be some similarity, cultures such as the different Indian cultures.

Prabhupāda: Formerly the whole world was Vedic culture. They have deteriorated, and India a simply glimpse is maintained still. And everywhere it is lost.

Hṛdayānanda: You said that by committing sinful activities one has to be punished by the laws of nature. So if one is repentant is he still punished?

Prabhupāda: Yes, provided he is actually repentant.

Hṛdayānanda: Then he is not punished?

Prabhupāda: Punished, but short cut. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. That is for the devotees, not for the nondevotee. Nondevotee must be punished. [break]

Hṛdayānanda: …ask a lot that if there could be a Kṛṣṇa conscious society, would this mean to stop the industry and technology?

Prabhupāda: Industry, technology you can continue, but practically it has no use. [break] Just like there is the bench, you can sit down on the ground, and to sit down little comfortably you manufacture the bench. So for sitting down, you can utilize the ground, but you are unnecessarily wasting your time and manufacturing… This is industry. [break] …philosophy is that we have to save time for becoming fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our necessity. And if we divert our energy for sitting down comfortably, then time is wasted. That… There is natural mattress, and there is a natural pillow, so why should you manufacture pillow and mattress? This is Sukadeva Gosvāmī. And there is natural food, fruits. So… And if you want still nice home, go to the cave. It is already made. Why should you waste your time? This is the Bhāgavata philosophy. But they are wasting time simply how to live in nice apartment, how to manufacture nice mattress, pillow. This is… So the whole philosophy is: save your time and make your life perfect within this short duration of life which you have obtained in this human form of life. Durlabhaṁ manusaṁ janma. It is very rarely you have got. Utilize it. And if you don’t utilize, if you waste your time in these bodily comforts and next life you become a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? They do not understand this. [break]

Hṛdayānanda: …sometimes they raise… Just like you pointed out in the preface of the Bhāgavatam that we’re no longer in the Dark Ages in the sense that previously there was no communication due to the geographical boundaries and that even though other forms of technology may be useless, at least it’s very beneficial to have different forms of communication such as telephone, telegraph, things like this, television. This is actually necessary.

Prabhupāda: But that you can utilize for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for sense gratification. That is the defect. They are simply wasting time in sense gratification. If the telephone and the telegraph, television is used for propagating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is all right. But they are not doing that. We are utilizing the modern press facilities for printing Vedic scriptures. But they are utilizing the press for sex literature, Freud’s philosophy. [break]

Hṛdayānanda: ...policy towards the problem of overpopulation and food shortage in the world now when the world leaders are not willing to do anything? What is our policy towards these problems?

Prabhupāda: Produce food. But you are producing bolts and nuts. You eat them. Motor tire, you are producing motor tire, bolts and nuts. You eat it. (Hṛdayānanda translates into Spanish) (laughter) The energy is spoiled, creating problem. Everyone is engaged in manufacturing motor parts.

Guest: (Hṛdayānanda translates) He’s saying that he himself is involved with political leaders, and he said he’s found that they’re completely unwilling. They don’t want to hear anything about the solution, and they’re completely stuck to their own way. So what can ISKCON do…?

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June 13 1974 Paris

Prabhupāda: What do you understand by the word “māyā”?

Yogeśvara: That which is not.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Things which we place value on that have no relation to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: The māyā is explained very nicely in the Bhāgavata, yathābhāso yathā tamaḥ. Just like sun is reflected in the water, and the light is reflected again on the wall. This is the exact explanation of māyā. Reality, this material world, the man who manufactured all these things, nobody knows where he has gone, but these things are taken as reality. This will be also finished. It will remain as relics, as Rome, relics, but when it was…, the houses were prepared with great enthusiasm as reality. And now it is as relics. So the energy expended for manufacturing those house, that is also māyā, and now they are being visited as relics. That is also māyā. So all these things are māyāra vaibhava, expansion of māyā. So if somebody says that you don’t appreciate these things? No, we appreciate, very much appreciate intelligence. But if you, for this appreciation, if you forget, then it is māyā. Forget Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Then it is māyā. Otherwise, it is reality. If they would have installed Deity worship in these buildings, how much nice it would have been. People chanting, dancing, and taking prasādam, twenty-four hours. Then it is no more māyā. It is reality. Such big, big, nice houses, they should have been places of worshiping Kṛṣṇa. But they’re worshiping bones, keeping some dead bones, and…..

June 12 1974 Paris

Paramahaṁsa: People are believing that at the end of life, there’s just death. So why worry about anything else? Therefore we should just enjoy right now.

Prabhupāda: That is the difference between you and animal. The animal is in the slaughterhouse. He’s not worried. But why you are worried. Suppose if you are brought in the slaughterhouse, and if you know that you’ll be slaughtered, are you not worried? An animal is not worried. He’s eating grass. That’s all. So that is the difference between animal and man. If you are not worried, then you are animal. That’s all.

Bhagavān: You once said that human life is pessimistic.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dissatisfaction. If you are not worried, that means you are animal. You are not human being.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is that like Prahlāda Mahārāja’s prayer when he saw Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva and he said, “I am not afraid of Your ferocious form, but I am afraid of this material world of saṁsāra.”

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He has given nice reference. A devotee, although sees God in His lion feature, and very ferocious, he knows He is God. “He’s my Lord.” But this so-called advancement of material civilization is the greatest enemy. That is not… Material civilization is very, very backward position. Māyā-mohita. He’ll be captivated by the so-called stones and bricks, and he’ll forget God. That is the disease of the western world. They are very much fond of these stones and bricks, and therefore they have no knowledge about God. This electricity, the electrons, the radio, this, everything machine and stones. They have got, forgotten God. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava. The more you materially advance, you forget God. So human life is meant for reviving our relationship with God, but if you forget God, then what kind of civilization it is? You are forgetting your real business.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Some people use the argument, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that by this advancement of technology, it will free us to think of philosophical.

Prabhupāda: They will free us. They will free us. Oh, that will never come. That will never come. Therefore they are called bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are captivated by the external feature, and one who is leading them, he’s also blind, and one who is following, he’s also blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te ‘pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that material laws are so strong that they are not free to do anything.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They are thinking that the technology will free them.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. No.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The technology cannot…?

Prabhupāda: It will bind them.

Bhagavān: It simply creates newer problems.

Prabhupāda: That’s all.

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March 4 1974 Dallas

Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda? But they argue that if God wanted us to wear clothes He would have made us with clothes. But He made us without clothes, so…

Prabhupāda: The thing is that here material world means that whatever you want, you have to work for it. That is material world. Things are there, but you have to work for it. In the spiritual world there is no need of working. You get all necessities. That is the difference.

Viṣṇujana: Yeah, we could say, “If God wanted you to have food, then He would have made you with food too.” (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Viṣṇujana: They say, “If God wanted us to have clothes, that He would have made us with clothes.” So if He wanted you to have food, then He would have made you with food. Why do you have to go out and get your food? Similarly, you have to go out and get your clothes.

Prabhupāda: No, this is called… What is the definition in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa?

viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā avidyā-karma-samjñānya

tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate [Cc. Madhya 6.154]

The three divisions of God’s energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy—these living entities, they are also spiritual; another energy—material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your… The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o’clock, till ten o’clock, simply working. They do not know that “This working is our punishment.” But because ignorant, they think that “Working is life.” This is called ignorance. He does not know, “This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?” No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidyā. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya.

Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, “Why God has not created?” That means tendency is not to work. That is spiritual tendency. Everything, necessities, automatically available. That is our… Therefore as soon as one man becomes rich, he does not work. He gets his thing by working others. The tendency is there, to retire from work. They go to a solitary place. They retire. They do not go out. Weekly, at least, they want to stop worker, working. So why this tendency? He does not want to die. He does not want to work. This is spiritual. Why man should work like… Therefore real civilization is that minimize work. Minimize work, save time, and go back to your spiritual life. That is civilization. And this is not civilization, to get the necessities of life, sense gratification, and work like hog and dog. That is condemned. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This human life is not meant for working so hard for sense gratification which are done by the dogs and hogs. Human life is meant: tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed [SB 5.5.1]. Human life is for tapasya. Why tapasya? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed: their existence will be purified. Then you will get unlimited pleasure. Yato brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after unlimited pleasure. So that is not possible in this material life. And we are thinking, “By working very hard, like hogs and dogs, we will get happiness.” This is… The dogs and hogs, they work day and night for searching out where is stool, and as soon as he gets stool, he becomes very strong and stout. Then sex. Never mind, the mother, sister, daughter. This is hog life. Therefore this particular animal has been… Kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujāṁ means this hog, stool-eater. So this human life is not meant for imitating the stool-eater hogs. This is in the Bhāgavata. But they have imitated this, “We shall work. Work like hard work, hoglike, and there is no discrimination of food. All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life. Never mind whether he is mother, sister, or daughter. It doesn’t matter.” This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhāgavata, “No, this is not life.” But this has become actually the life, modern civilized life. Therefore it is called avidya, not education, contra-education. [break] …says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don’t produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duṣkṛtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duṣkṛtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. [break] “…

Devotee: Is it all right to… You mentioned that to work hard is like… Because we’re in the material world we have to work, this is the condemnation…

Prabhupāda: No, no. You have to work, but minimize work.

Devotee: I was wondering if it was all right to work hard for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To minimize this material work means the energy should be employed for Kṛṣṇa. Minimize work this, means this side, material side. And save time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That’s all. That is the principle. And if you are busy from the early morning to go to the working place and up to ten o’clock, then where you get for chanting, time? So therefore you save time from material activities and engage it for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is life.

Some Conclusions—I think the thing that caught my attention the most was this statement by Srila Prabhupada-

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