Hare Krishna Society

Subject: Rupanuga vada khandana – refutation of the Rupanuga dasa interpretation of October 18, 1977 conversation with Srila Prabhupada

Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. CC Adi 12.9 Purport):

Reply to Rupanuga dasa

Actual text of conversation with Srila Prabhupada in his room, October 18, 1977, Vrndavana, India

Srila Prabhupāda: So, you are taking care of that conveyance?

Tamāla Krnsa: Yes, we are, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Jayapatākā: Because you are a paramahamsa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are seeing everyone else as surrendered to Krsna. But only by your mercy, you are forcing us to serve Krsna.

Srila Prabhupāda: Hare Krsna. One Bengali gentleman has come from New York?

Tamāla Krsna: Yes. Mr. Sukamal Roy Chowdury.

Srila Prabhupāda: So I have deputed some of you to initiate. Hm?

Tamāla Krsna: Yes. Actually… Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Srila Prabhupāda: So I think Jayapatākā can do that if he likes. I have already deputed. Tell him.

Tamāla Krsna: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: So, deputies, Jayapatākā’s name was there?

Bhagavān: It is already on there, Śrīla Prabhupāda. His name was on that list.

Srila Prabhupāda: So I depute him to do this at Māyāpura, and you may go with him. I stop for the time being. Is that all right?

Tamāla Krsna: Stopped doing what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Srila Prabhupāda: This initiation. I have deputed the, my disciples. Is it clear or not?

Girirāja: It’s clear.

Srila Prabhupāda: You have got the list of the names?

Tamāla Krsna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Srila Prabhupāda: And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.

Girirāja: We will explain to him so that he will understand properly.

Srila Prabhupāda: Hm? Hm?

Girirāja: I said we will explain to the Bengali gentleman just as you have described to us, so that he’ll be satisfied with this arrangement.

Srila Prabhupāda: And Dr. Ghosh has his scheme, but actually the scheme is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We want to introduce that scheme to our Gurukula. We haven’t got to manufacture scheme. Is that correct?

Girirāja: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: Let them learn to rise early in the morning and cleanse. This is the first scheme. This will keep their health nice. Cātur-varnyam mayā srstam [Bhagavad Gita. 4.13]. Unless in the human society the varnāśrama system is introduced, no scheme or social order, health order or any order, political order, will be successful.

Bhagavān: Everything is there very clearly in your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Srila Prabhupāda: A man-made scheme-useless. Sāttvika-yuga.(?) What is that verse? Sattvāvalambi-para-sattva-viśuddha-sattvam… From Brahma-samhitā?

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Rupanuga vada khandana – Part 2 A refutation of Rupanuga dasa’s intepretation of the October 18, 1977 conversation by Mahesvara dasa (Mahesh raja) .

Mahesh Raja says:

13. February 2016 at 3:36 pm

Rupanuga das: Srila Prabhupada said the following during his arrival address at the Los Angeles Temple on May 5, 1972:

“So, we have got this message from Krsna, from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, from the Six Goswamis; later on Bhaktivinode Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur. And we are trying our bit to distribute this knowledge. Now tenth, eleventh, twelfth; my Guru Maharaj is the tenth from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I am eleventh, you are twelfth.”

In the article, this last sentence was paraphrased from memory, but the meaning is still the same as Srila Prabhupada’s statement, which now becomes enhanced when taken in the context of his speech. He is obviously referring to his present disciples as the next in the disciplic succession he has just named and numbered, all of whom are directly initiating their own disciples.

Mahesh: this is just very CLEVER MANIPULATION from Rupanuga das to USE Srila Prabhupada’s words to make themselves as self-made gurus (Acaryas). This is BETRAYAL of Srila Prabhupada. They want to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada with THEMSELVES as Acaryas so that they go on with money screwing slavery making bogus conditioned soul (initiating “gurus”) business.

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Sept 7 1973 Stockholm

Now, how to become detached from this habit of hard working, that is suggested here. It is said, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. Mahat-sevā, saintly persons, if you associate with them, if you serve them, try to serve them, that practice is still in India. If a sannyāsī, you’ll find from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is going from village to village, but any village he goes… Generally, the sannyāsī goes to a temple because temple is meant for the traveling sannyāsī. And as soon as one sannyāsī… Still this custom is prevalent in India, as soon as somebody sees a sannyāsī has come in a temple, somebody from the village, not somebody, but many will come, “Sir, you can take your lunch at my place.” So there is no scarcity. Many people will come to invite you still. Therefore many pseudo or phony swamis, they have taken this profession because there is no difficulty getting food. So, mahat-sevā. The… What is the idea? The idea is the gṛhasthas, they know that “We are simply engaged in the matter of sense gratification. If we invite some saintly person at home, if he eats at my place, then, we commit so many sinful activities, we’ll be saved.” This is the process. Therefore, a sannyāsī is advised to accept prasādam in the house of a brāhmaṇa, because a brāhmaṇa is supposed to be, become very pious. If you take foodstuff from impious men, then that means you are taking share of his impious activities. But a saintly person, they can digest, but if (they) cannot digest, then you have to suffer. This is the process. Then he has to suffer. Therefore the safety principle is to accept luncheon in a pious family, where there is Vaiṣṇava family or brāhmaṇa family. Not that anywhere we can accept cooked food. Sometimes we have to do it, but that is against principle. We should not accept food anywhere and everywhere, unless he is pious.The brāhmaṇas are supposed to be pious; therefore, a sannyāsī is advised to accept food, luncheon in the brāhmaṇa family. And brāhmaṇa family, still, not all, a few families still in India, they worship regularly Nārāyaṇa-śilā, śalagrāma-śilā.

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Anubhavananda dasa

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

MY DEAR ETERNAL KIN

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

AND DON’T BE SLAVES TO SIN.

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

GO BACK WHERE YOU BELONG

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

HERE EVERYTHING IS WRONG.

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

WAKE UP THY ETERNAL SOULS

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

WAKE UP THY ETERNAL ROLES.

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

TO REALISE WHY YOU WERE BORN

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

YOU ARE NOT THESE TEMPORY FORMS.

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

BEGS GOD AND HIS SERVANTS FROM ABOVE

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

WAKE UP YOUR ETERNAL BLISSFUL LOVE.

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Sri Vijaya dasami- Sri Ramacandra Vijaya Utsava. Saturday, September 30, 2017

[Mayapura, West Bengal, India time]

Srila Prabhupada explains the pastimes of Lord Ramacandra

compiled by Narasimha dasa and Yasoda nandana dasa

Srila Prabhupāda: No, special observance means to discuss about the life and works of …then October, Vijayā–daśamī, appearance date of Śrīla Madhvācārya, and the victory day of Lord Rāmacandra. So there is no fasting, but in the evening we should celebrate some feasting and discuss about the life and works of Śrī Madhvācārya as well as Rāmāyaṇa incidents where Rāma and Rāvaṇa fought. Devotee: Thank you Prabhupāda. (end) Srila Prabhupada conversation, Vrindavana, Uttara Pradesh, India, March 11, 1972

Devotee: …engagement, one devotee commented that the reason that Lord Rāma worshiped Lord Śiva was because He wanted to kill Rāvaṇa and Rāvaṇa was a devotee of Śiva, so Lord Rāma worshiped Śiva in that respect.

Srila Prabhupada; Hm? What is that?

Devotee: He said that because Lord Śiva was, ah, excuse me, Rāvaṇa was a devotee of Lord Śiva, that in order that Lord Rāmacandra could kill Rāvaṇa, He worshiped Śiva.

Devotee:: He wanted to take permission of him, so they say. Rāma wanted to take permission from Śiva…

Srila Prabhupāda: So, Śiva is so rascal that he gave permission? That means they are trying to prove Śiva is a rascal. (devotees laugh) Because he gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use of his, of one becoming Śiva’s devotee? If such a rascal that one can take his permission to kill his devotee, so what is the use of becoming a devotee of such a rascal? Huh?

Devotee: He protected Bāṇāsura.

Srila Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? That means that proving that Śiva is a rascal. He gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use? Then nobody should become Śiva’s devotee. That is the conclusion. Because he gives permission to somebody else to kill his devotee. They are trying to prove Lord Śiva is a rascal. What do you think? Huh? If I want your permission, please give me your permission, I shall kill your son, and if you say, “Yes, I give my permission,” then are you not a rascal? By this example they are making Lord Śiva a rascal, that he has no common sense even.

Indian man: (Hindi)

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The Spiritual World, by Javier Figuerola or Haripada dasa

Now I am in Vrindavana, India, the pure devotees of God or Krishna say that the Vrndavana of this material world and the Vrndavana of the spiritual world are made of the same spiritual substance, as the great spiritual master Srila Narottama dasa thakura says that one can see Vrndavana when one is purified of the anxieties and the material desires. There is a Sacred Scripture called Brahma-Samhita and there the spiritual world is described in a very beautiful way: “I adore that transcendental abode known as Goloka Vrndavana, where as loving consorts, the Goddesses of Fortune in their immaculate spiritual essence practice the loving service to the Supreme Lord Krishna, as His only lover, where every tree is a gem of spiritual purposes, there all the water is nectar, every word is a song and every step a dance, the flute is the Lord’s favorite assistant Sri Krishna and the effulgence of this place is full of spiritual bliss. There the supreme spiritual entities are all pleasing and enchanting and the innumerable surabhi cows provide oceans of transcendental milk. I adore that abode where transcendental time is always present – without past or future – and therefore, it is not subject to the nature of the extinction even for the lapse of half a moment. To that Kingdom are known as Goloka Vrindavana very few realized souls of this world “.

Our heart is like a television, and there are only two channels, material and spiritual, when we connect with the spiritual channel through chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Krishna. Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare (the H is read as J de jota), God or Krishna reveals the spiritual world and His eternal pastimes, and when we connect with the material channel we only see a lot of suffering and everything is temporary.

https://alimentosparalapaz.blogspot.com https://haripadadasa.blogspot.com

Can somebody go back to Godhead without initiation?

May 22 197 Melbourne

Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, can a person go back to a spiritual planet without initiation?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee 7: Can a person go back to a spiritual planet…

Prabhupāda: No, there is no more init… Initiation here required when the living entity is in darkness. Just like uneducated person requires to go to school. One who is educated, in his full knowledge, he doesn’t go.

Madhudviṣa: The question was, Prabhupāda, is it possible for a person to return to the spiritual world without taking initiation from a bona fide spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, ā dau gurv-āśrayam. First business is to accept spiritual master. Ā dau gurv-āśrayam.

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Sound- when it becomes material or spiritual

May 21 1975 melbourne

Madhudviṣa: When you were speaking with the priest yesterday, he was saying the chanting is material because it comes out of the mouth and it’s made like a material sound vibration. Would it be possible for them to run scientific tests on the chanting, the sound of Hare Kṛṣṇa, to make a distinction between that sound and let’s say the sound of an automobile’s horn? Would that be perceptible?

Prabhupāda: No, the same sound. Sound is the same; when you are impure, this is material. Just like the tongue is the same, but when you are suffering from jaundice, you are tasting sugar as bitter, and when you will be cured, then the same tongue will taste it is sweet. So it depends on the purification of the body. Whole this bhakti-yoga or any yoga, the whole system is purification. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1].Our existence is now impure. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age, and disease. And when it is purified, without any contamination, then there is no birth, death, old age. In diseased condition you cannot relish. Even if you are given actually rasagullā you will not taste it very nice. If there is no appetite, even it is rasagullā, it is useless. Spiritual life means curing the contamination of material disease. That is spiritual life. And when you are purified, you relish the spiritual taste.

Madhudviṣa: That is a subjective experience. When you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa you can say, “Oh, I feel good,” but to someone who won’t chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, if there was some objective way of measuring the difference between the Hare Kṛṣṇa sound and the sound of, let’s say, someone’s name.

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Spiritual Advancement

By Narasimha das

“All these are pitfalls of personal sense gratification. Just to cheat some innocent people, one makes a show of advanced spiritual life and becomes known as a sadhu, mahatma or religious person. All this means that the so-called devotee has become victimized by all these unwanted creepers and that the real creeper of bhakti-lata-bija has been stunted.” (Cc. Madhya 19.160, PURPORT) See purport below.

Any intelligent devotee who knows iskcon history since 1978 to the present day can easily understand the meaning and context of the above statement and how it applies to many or most iskcon leaders. But the question has been raised whether the “innocent people” who follow such posers can make tangible spiritual advancement. Any devotee or group can ask others to chant Hare Krishna and begin devotional life but not every sanga can assist us to advance further. Unless innocent people learn to follow the self-realized acharya and hear from him with rapt attention, they risk losing their innocence by associating with offenders posing as sadhus. This is practically seen all over the world, and most of these innocent people end up leaving the mission or compromising with deviants.

It may be wrong to suggest that because we might not be perfect we therefore have no right to preach or judge who is making spiritual advancement– and who is on a deviant path that leads to degradation. It’s our duty as disciples to try to protect our own devotional service and the mission of the guru. How to do this? We must discriminate to understand and preach the correct path. We must accept the right association with genuine devotees. If we are content remain in a blind society of pretenders, we may leave the path of devotional service and fall down completely.

Srila Prabhupada once said, “I may be perfect or I may not be perfect, but I am repeating the message of the all-perfect Supreme Personality of Godhead without the slightest change. That is perfect.” Continue reading →

Compiled by Dama Ghosha Dasa (Seattle, USA)

Below we have a concise analysis (from Srila Prabhupada’s quotes) that food offered thru bogus Iskcon gurus is not Krishna Prasadam. Sounds alarming? Then please read further…..

Over the years, we have all seen a lot of damage to the once prestigious worldwide Iskcon organization. Now, it is only a mere shadow of its past glory. And here below is one key reason. The present leaders of Iskcon have minimized the actual instructions of Srila Prabhupada, and created their “own” version of Bhakti Tattva. Starting every day with the offering of bhoga to turn it into Krishna Prasadam thru the un-authorized gurus of Iskcon, everyone there is eating sinful foodstuffs, and not Krishna prasadam.

See the proof below.

Conversations, June 13, 1973, Detroit

Prabhupada: Who is my disciple? First of all let him follow strictly the disciplined rules.

Devotee (2): As long as one is following, then he is…

Prabhupada: Then he is all right.

Letter: Jayapataka, July 11, 1969

Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement is hampered from the very beginning. This defying means to disconnect the relationship with the Spiritual Master. And anyone who defies and therefore disconnects the relationship with the Spiritual Master can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life. I hope this will clear up this question sufficiently for you.’

Without going into all the hundreds of changes the Iskcon GBCs have authorized, merely changing whimsically, only ONE instruction, disconnects themselves from the param para and renders that “service” useless. What to speak of main instructions-like first of all-HOW TO OFFER FOOD TO GOD !! Now here below is the actual words of Srila Prabhupada , where he tells his early disciples the process of offering bhoga or food to God, Krishna. And there are many other quotes like this one. Continue reading →

Hare Krishna Society

Rupanuga vada khandana – Part 1 refutation of the Rupanuga dasa interpretation of October 18, 1977 conversation with Srila Prabhupada

Rupanuga vada khandana – Part 2 A refutation of Rupanuga dasa’s intepretation of the October 18, 1977 conversation

How to stop working hard and where to accept our meals–SP

WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP

Sri Vijaya dasami- Sri Ramacandra Vijaya Utsava and Sripad Madhvacarya Avirbhava tithi [appearance day of Madhva Acarya]

The Spiritual World

Can somebody go back to Godhead without Initiation?

Sound-when it becomes material or spiritual

Spiritual Advancement

Food Offered Through bogus Iskcon Gurus is not Krishna Prasadam