Mauritius Oct 5 1975 conversations
Brāhmaṇa does not go to construct big, big house.He simply constructs his character,
And… how the Brittish destroyed the vedic culture in India so this idea of simple living is now considered –primitive…
Guest (3) (Indian man): Car is a necessity, Swamijī, don’t you think so? Car is a necessity.
Prabhupāda:Not necessary. What is the use of car? If you locate yourself to get everything, your necessity, then where is the use of car? If you require car, you have a bullock cart. That’s all.Why should you hanker after petrol, mobile (Mobil?) oil, machine, this, that, so many things. Why?
Guest (3): Yes, but don’t you think that it would be impossible for you to come mostly?
Prabhupāda: No, no. So long it is not available, we must take the best advantage. That is another thing.But gradually we shall develop a society that all these unnecessary rubbish things should be rejected. That is the idea.Or those who are interested, let them manufacture car; we take advantage. We don’t bother ourself how to manufacture car.Ajāgara-vṛtti. Ajāgara-vṛtti, the idea is… Ajāgara means the snake. So a mouse makes a hole in the field to live very peacefully.So, and he enters the hole, and a snake gets the information and he comes, enters the hole. He eats the snake… The snake eats the mouse and lives peacefully. So let this rascal manufacture motorcar. When we require, we take from them and ride away. We are not going to manufacture.There will be some rascals. Let them do that, mouse. We enter as snake. (laughter) That’s all.We are doing that. We are doing that. I did not manufacture this house,but somebody, some mouse, has done. (laughter) And we have entered it, that’s all. That’s all. This is going on all over the world.You know George Harrison? He has earned money with so great hard labor, and he has given us a house in London, fifty-five lakhs’ worth.Another boy, Alfred Ford, he’s the great grandson of Mr. Henry Ford. He has given. He is giving still money.He is prepared with all his money. So those who are after money, material things, we have to induce them that “Spend for me,” that’s all, and let him earn. So far we are concerned, we shall live very simple life, simply in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is brāhmaṇa.Brāhmaṇa does not go to construct big, big house.He simply constructs his character,and the other kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, they offer him, “Please come here and sit down.” Therefore the division is…One who is unable to become a brāhmaṇa, let him become kṣatriya. If he cannot become kṣatriya, let him become a vaiśya. Otherwise let him remain a śūdra. But there should be ideal class. So we are trying to create an ideal society of brāhmaṇas.Then people will be benefited. And if everyone is śūdra, rascal, then what people will be benefited? They do not know how to live. The brāhmaṇas will give idea, “Live like this. You will be happy.”
Oct 13 1975 Durban morning walk
Prabhupāda: How long they can stay in the water?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If it’s warm weather they can stay all day.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the cold weather, a few hours. They put on these black suits made out of a certain fabric—it’s called a wet suit—and they are able to stay in the water much longer. It insulates, insulates the body from the cold water.
Prabhupāda: Going for surfing?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These gentlemen? No, I don’t think so. These young boys are. (break) surf, we tell them, “Yes, we surf in the ocean of bhakti-rasa.”
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. (break)karma bandha phasa: one after another. Asate vilāsa: material enjoyment means implicated in unnecessary activities. If people are satisfied, plain living, then these things are not necessary: go into the ocean, find out oil, then bring it in the port, then distribute it, so many, one after another. That, this kind of civilization, they think it is advanced. And to live very plainly, minimizing this unnecessary activity, they think it is not civilization.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Primitive.
Prabhupāda: Primitive, yes.But primitive meat-eating is continued. That is not to be stopped, primitive drinking and meat-eating.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it’s not working in India today. Although theoretically it’s perfect, practically it’s not working.
Prabhupāda:No. Practically, because you[the Brittish] have preached your culture in India; therefore they[the Indians]have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that “If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them,” so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization.And because they were on the governing power, they could do it.Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position.Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.
Prabhupāda:In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tea?
Prabhupāda:Yes. Nobody would drink tea, no family. We have seen it.And for drinking, for drinking tea, drinking wine, regular propaganda was done.There was a tea assess(?) (tea sets?) committee. Men these foreigners, they began to grow tea in India in the beginning for exporting to Europe and America� Later on, they began to pay some tax to the government. That was known as “tea assess(?) committee.” The tea assess(?) committee,in order to popularize drinking tea, they used to hold stall, just like here in park and public places, and they would prepare very tasty tea and distribute free.
Note-just like now these demoniac governments of the world are distributing this poisonous “vaccine” for free)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Free.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, “If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved,” and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphletand giving free.Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: “Oh, it is very nice.” Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda.And culturally, in our school days they wrote One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England’s Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sati rite.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That “Later on, after the death of husband in some places the wife was forced to go to the fire, so the Britishers stopped it. And they introduced railway for going to the pilgrims and so many, and they constructed bridges to make easy to go from one country to another.” And people took it very seriously, that British government is very nice.And they were publishing in outside country that “India is uncivilized. We are making them civilized. And as soon as they are civilized, then we hand over the charge to them. That is our noble mission.” And they were exploiting.All raw materials was being taken awayand the necessities of India, especially cloth, was being supplied.And the local weavers, their hands cut off.So many thing they, tainting And everything bad. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru. He became a first-class victim.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: First-class?
Prabhupāda:Victim of European propaganda. He used to take “Anything Indian, bad. Anything Indian, bad.” Notonly he. Later on, all the so-called educated persons, they took it for granted that “Whatever is done in London, that is first-class, and whatever is Indian original, that is all bad.” And they controlled the native princes. So many things. It is a big history, how they killed India’s original culture. And then Hindu-Muslim riots, friction, fighting between Hindus and Muslims and dividing them.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said that the British instigated the Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How did they do that?
Prabhupāda: Oh, youNowadays you pay somebody, and he will do anything. So they appointed this Jhinna.He found that he is a very, intelligent lawyer. He was in the Congress. So there was dissension. There must be. So once this Jhinna was to be the president of the Congress, and the Patel, he frustrated. So Jhinna became angry, and at this moment the Britishers took it. He was a very intelligent barrister. So he instigated that,“You form a party, Muslim league. And whatever money is required for propaganda, we shall pay.” So regular subscription was raised from all big, big British companies, mercantile, to pay him: “Whatever money, you organize the Muslims against the Hindus.” And he did it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jhinna, he was Muslim.
Prabhupāda:He was neither Muslim nor Hindu.He was an intelligent barrister coming from the His father, means not real father, his father was Parsi, and he kept one Mohammedan girl. So the Jhinna is the issue of this (to passerby) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
…Prabhupāda: “So if you make propaganda and pay money to go against the Hindus and incite them”—gradually it developed.And the money was being paid by the Britishers.And he saw that money is coming.He had no feeling, national or He wanted money, that’s all. For money you can purchase anything nowadays.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did the British build all so many railroads?
Prabhupāda:For drawing raw materials from villages and bring it to the Calcutta, Bombay port and export to their country because their country does not produce anything.They’re starving.Still England, London, is maintained by importing goods from Africa, India, here, there. They have no food there. They can grow some potato, maybe Potato only,That was the reason of expanding their empire. They had no food at home, England. They were manufacturing cotton cloth. That cotton was not grown in their country. It was brought from Egypt. They manipulated things in such a way. In America also they wanted to do that, but Americans, just understanding, separated, George Washington. In America I have heard that each family was to maintain a British soldier. You know that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn’t know that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they brought tea from India and other places and sell it in America.Their whole policy was they exploit the whole world and bring money in London. That’s all. And one who will do that, he will be honored by the state, given Earl of some small village. It has no value.Earl of this whole, this man, place, Lord of this. (laughter)A few acres of land and he is Lord of Chelmsford. And they will be given big, big post, governor, viceroy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did Nehru, though He was so closely associated with Gandhi, and Gandhi was for getting the foreign products out.Why did Nehru go so much against that policy? Why did Nehru?
Prabhupāda: No, Nehru, he was searching after some big post. That’s all. All these political agitators, they want the big post, that’s all. You give them big post, and they will be satisfied. They will no more agitate. Political agitators means they want some prize post from the government. That’s all. Make them some minister, and they will be no more agitator.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But he is considered to be very religious man in the eyes of the masses.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nehru.
Prabhupāda: Nehru?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I know one Gujarati school, they have a book. And in the book it is taught that Gandhi, Nehru
Prabhupāda:That is propaganda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda:That is propaganda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) in the last fifty years or so that especially that the Indian culture has been squashed and perverted by the British.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because of mass communication, Prabhupada? Is that because of mass communication?
Prabhupāda: Mass communication or no
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Radio, and things like this.
Prabhupāda:Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything.(break)Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India’s basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the śūdras, less intelligent class of men, less than śūdras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you’ll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the villages?
Prabhupāda:Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India’s civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages.In the evening there would be bhdgavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas,and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause)So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:Hate everything Indian.
